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HOLY SPIRIT NOT GIVEN YET?


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JB
Young Wolf



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JimD,
Now you are talking. We can see what God has done. God doesn't reveal Himself to us but rather He makes Himself known to us. I don't know if this makes sense or not, but I have a lot more to share on this . Jim we agree on this.

God Bless and keep seeking the King. It is through disagreement that we grow and learn. Thanks for the debate.

JB
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trettep
Lion



Joined: 24 Nov 2005

Posts: 910
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JB, thanks for your time.

Your servant in Christ,

Paul
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HeKkLeR
King Kong



Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 2277

Location: Europe
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JB wrote:
HeKkLer,
Are you serious about Genesis 18? It says that the Lord Appeared to Him.


And it says that the LORD ate with him.

Quote:
No where in that text does it say the the Lord (Jehovah) sat down and ate with him.


Genesis 18
    1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

    2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

    3 And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.

    7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.

    8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.



Quote:
Does this text say that one of the three men was the Lord? Maybe -Maybe not.


Yes.

Quote:
The Holy Spirit appeared unto men in many different ways in the Old testament. How then does this verse support your argument? It doesn't.


Because one of the men was the LORD, so the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, must have been dwelling within that body.

Quote:
You say that I am arrogant and you lay claim that this is a Bible Discussion. AT what point did it become a discussion?


While grown people were discussing it.

Quote:
I went back through and saw very little discussion.


That is because you have been arguing your point, which is false. That is why it is an argument for you.

Quote:
It was almost like the Pharisees trying to trap Jesus.


Oh, please! Rolling Eyes

Quote:
I felt that my answers were all more than sufficient, you didn't.


So? The words that are written in the Holy Bible have proved you to be wrong. What does that have to do with me?

Quote:
I guess it is time for us to move on to another topic and start the process over again. By the way, I really enjoyed (past tense) this one.


Very Happy My only advice, for the future, would be to study your bible more, before you try to teach something from it that is not written.
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JimD
Rattlesnake



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Jon Post:
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


Beautiful! this is what we are all striving for! and I guess my point would be that as wonderful as a great education is, its not always the way our understanding is opened. Praise God! Otherwise us common folk would not have a prayer, no pun intended.
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JB
Young Wolf



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
HeKkLer,
Why are you going off on a tangent? I this discussion not about the Holy Spirit? Your argument was, that the Lord was with them and the Holy Spirit was in Him. My argument was, He is Lord and with out sin. Why wouldn't the Spirit be in Him?

Then you go offf on a tangent because you have no basis for your argument. This discussion isn't about whether the Lord ate with him. But because you have no depth of understanding on the Doctrines of the Holy Spirit you insist on trying to twist things around instead of accepting the fact that you were wrong on this Holy Spirit discussion.

If you look at my question, where does it say the Lord (Jehovah) sat down with him? Study the Hebrew.

But back to the topic. The Holy Spirit. That was the poorest argument yet presented by you or the others on this forum. If He was Lord then He was Spirit.

I don't get what you are trying to say and I don't think that you do either.
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JB
Young Wolf



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JimD,
Once again you amaze me. You again hit the nail right on the head. It isn't school that teaches it is the Lord. The school gives you a foundation but the Lord Opens our eyes.

God Bless and keep seeking the King.
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JB
Young Wolf



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
HeKkLer,
I did the work for you.


And the LORD (yehovah) appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them , he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord (adonoy) if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant

Did you see that? Verse 1 God appeared to him.
This verse uses the Hebrew word (yehovah)

Verse 3 my Lord (adonoy) Jehovah God didn't eat with Abraham. A bodily form of God ate with Abraham.

Jehovah God is Spirit. (John 4:24)

You seek to insult and criticize. I almost feel as if I should not respond to your posts any longer. You do not have a teachable spirit.

I will pray for you my friend.
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JB
Young Wolf



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Trettep,
Thank you for your hearty discussion. I enjoyed this debate.

May God bless you richly in your life.
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Yehushuan
King Kong



Joined: 30 Mar 2006

Posts: 2465

Location: Charismatic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
HeKkLeR wrote:
Was the Spirit of God not in the one that Abraham ate with?

I wasn't aware the one Abraham ate with was human. Now look what you went and made me do.... go and brush the dust off that Dead Testament and all... grumble....

Yehu
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trettep
Lion



Joined: 24 Nov 2005

Posts: 910
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
JB wrote:
Trettep,
Thank you for your hearty discussion. I enjoyed this debate.

May God bless you richly in your life.


Thanks JB, you as well.

Paul
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JonMarie
Cobra



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 455

Location: Pa.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jim D wrote:
Quote:
Beautiful! this is what we are all striving for! and I guess my point would be that as wonderful as a great education is, its not always the way our understanding is opened. Praise God! Otherwise us common folk would not have a prayer, no pun intended.


1 Cor 1:20-21
20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


1 Cor 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Luke 10:24
For I tell you that many prophets and kings longed to see what you see and they did not see it, and to hear what you hear and they did not hear it.
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JimD
Rattlesnake



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jon, you must be reading my mind, I have been studying 1st Cor. 1 & 2 off and on all day.
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JimD
Rattlesnake



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
JB wrote:
JimD,
Once again you amaze me. You again hit the nail right on the head. It isn't school that teaches it is the Lord. The school gives you a foundation but the Lord Opens our eyes.


So can we agree that if we disagree on a particular subject that it is the Spirit that will individually confirm or deny who is right or wrong, and not you, I, or anyone else?
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JB
Young Wolf



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 516
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JimD,
When we read and study the scriptures, we must at first remember that what we are reading is something that has already been revealed to others. We are in essence, reading God's Revelation to Paul or Timothy or John or who ever.
We have a responsibility to study the Word. I am sure that you remember the text in Acts, The Bereans were more noble than those of Thessalonica, for they searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were true.

We are also commanded to study to show thyselves approved workmen who need not be ashamed.

Paul talks about the gifts of the Spirit. Some are called as teachers. Great men such as Yehu or Plontius who truly have the gift of teaching are a safe bet in the interpretive process. But as you can see, not even they agree 100% of the time. That is what makes the scriptures so great. There is always more to learn.

To just simply believe and not really spend devoted time to the Word will seldom render much usefulness. By the way, I am not suggesting that you do this.

On the issue of the Holy Spirit , one of us is right and one of us is wrong. It isn't a matter of individual interpretation but it is a matter of maybe we just aren't there are that one yet. I have spent much time on this study as I once believed like you but then one day realized that this wasn't true.

But on the other hand, you gained new insights into the Word and for that I am thankful. Remember, we are all students of the word, including Yehu and Plontius. You being a student and a source of fellowship, offers me an opportunity to revisit old studies and to grow in my relationship with Christ.
At the end of the day, we are all still students. We are a little people trying to apprehend a very large God. As a result, we disagree. As we still do on the Holy Spirit.

God Bless you Jim and I am looking forward to the next adventure.
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Yehushuan
King Kong



Joined: 30 Mar 2006

Posts: 2465

Location: Charismatic
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JB wrote:
Great men such as Yehu…

Are you looking for a fight?

It is enough of a struggle to get people to understand why they shouldn’t call me (or anyone) pastor. And if I may be so bold as to say, you of all people should know why I am not to be called great. There is no one great but one. (I shall, however, merely attribute this to enthusiastic exuberance.)

I can’t help but think this is similar to when people compliment me on the ties I wear. (I have an outstanding collection of magnificent ties.) I thank them for the compliment, but deep down inside wish to rebuke them because I DIDN’T DESIGN IT. What? I am to be commended merely because I had the joie de vie to buy the dang thing? Rather I get depressed because I haven’t the creativity to actually birth such beauty.

Same with regards to teaching. Am I to be commended for receiving a gift? Hardly. Commend the giver. So we’ll have no more of this. And I’d rather you not reply. We’ll just move forward and never speak of it again.

Yehu
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