HOLY SPIRIT NOT GIVEN YET?

JimD · Rattlesnake Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 439

Bob, 45 and Tree, stick to your guns, you've got it right. Tree, and 45 I do think you are misunderstanding Calvin. He is saying the Holy Spirit was in believers before Jesus came. Ditto Robertson and Barns.

I forgot which of you said, hell is simply separation from God but thats very true, in this life, and in the next.

JB, I don't care what school you went to, you and most of the religious world have got this wrong, and only because of a knee jerk response to Jesus saying "unless I go away the Spirit cannot come". You actually believe you are more clean from sin than all those faithful ones before Jesus, maybe the Holy Spirit was not in Mary either, according to you she was so tainted with sin God could not even look at her Shocked

like I have said before, you need a heaping spoonful of get real!

JimD · Rattlesnake Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 439

JB, your whole argument hinges on the difference between in, and upon, its like you are engrossed in the splinter while you are being blindsided by the log.

JimD · Rattlesnake Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 439

I am amazed, we are not even agreeing on what John Calvin said about this, no wonder we cannot agree on what the bible teaches. Could I get each one of you to post in detail what you think John is saying? Seriously, I think we might learn something about ourselves here.

Yehushuan · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject:

Yehushuan · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:

JimD · Rattlesnake Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 439

John Gill Quote:
the Spirit of Christ in them did signify; or "make manifest": from whence it appears, that Christ then existed, as he did before there were any prophets, and even from everlasting, being the eternal God; and that the Spirit is from him, as well as from the Father; and as here, so he is often by the Jews {a} called axyvm axwr, "the Spirit of the Messiah," or "Christ"; and that the Spirit is truly God, since he could declare beforehand the exact time of Christ’s coming, and the finality of the age in which he came, as well as bear a previous testimony to his sufferings and glory; as also, that he was in the prophets, and they were inspired by him, and spake as he moved and directed them:

So, let me get this straight, God was inspiring the prophets on what to say but His Spirit was not in them, Shocked

Seriously guys, GET REAL!

Yehushuan · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:30 am Post subject:

JB · Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 527

JimD,
Maybe some prophecy will shed a little light on the subject. In the Old Testament God normally prophesied through the Children of Israel. Mainly those referred to as prophets. Listen to what He says.

Here is what they say:

Ezekiel 36:22-27 Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. Eze 36:23 "I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord GOD, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. Eze 36:24 "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Eze 36:25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Eze 36:26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Eze 37:12 "Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Eze 37:13 "Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. Eze 37:14 "I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it," declares the LORD.' "

If this doesn't suffice, then we will have to get into a more theological approach to this study. Which I am willing to do because I believe that it will be fun.

Jim God Bless you and Keep seeking the King.

JB · Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 527

JimD,
Even if we disagree on this topic, I want you to know that I still love you in Christ. When I say Keep seeking the King, I am sincere.

God Bless you My friend

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

JB, the Prophets had the Holy Spirit within them. Ask yourself were they doing their will or the will of God? If you answer the will of God then how can someone by submission do the will of God if they are void of the Holy Spirit? They can't. These were not doing the will as in the case that Pharoh did by letting His people go. They were submitted unto God and doing His will favorably. That can't be done unless one has the Spirit of God. God hadn't POURED out His Spirit until the day of Penetacost. Poured out doesn't mean He never provided His Spirit. He selectively gave of His Spirit to those that He chose to accomplish His purpose and still does. Except now it comes as a pouring because even through those that received the Spirit they can provide it unto others (recall the laying on of hands). This is what you must perceive about the pouring.

JB, I hope you don't have a wall between us that your seeking these things out. You asked me to provide scriptures before that show that the Spirit was given and I showed not only that it was but that David didn't want it taken/remove from him showing that he had some form of possession. Now let's consider Jesus when He was with His Apostles. They didn't have the Spirit at first but it dwelt among them in the form of Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. But in order for them to have that Spirit in them they had to BELEIVE for that is a requirement to having the Holy Spirit dwell inside you. When Jesus rose from the Dead and appeared unto them then they could TRUELY BELEIVE that He was who He said He was and that His Witness was True for having raised from the very dead this was now seared in their understanding. At that point they had come to KNOW for sure that He was show He said He was and received in them that wonderful Spirit.

Hope this helps...

Your servant in Christ,

Paul

JB · Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 527

Trettep,
Go back and look at Psalms 51. The verse that you quoted me. Let me ask you a question. If you took a pencil from me, does that mean that the pencil was in me?
Let me know? Because if that is what take away means, then I am bleeding real bad. Laughing

In Christian love
JB

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

JimD · Rattlesnake Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 439

JimD · Rattlesnake Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 439

JB · Wolf Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 527

JimD,
Our whole life is about seeking Him. We know Him but we are admonished to draw closer to Him. My heart is always sincere even in the heat of debate.

God Bless and keep growing