Relative importance of science

45degreeN · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: Relative importance of science

I bet that the average person on the street holds science in relatively low esteem, ignores it whenever possible, and generally thinks television(the media) is far more relevant to his life than science. Obviously many people here are not amongst that crowd.

It may be a sad fact but society is not filled with people eager to jump on whichever the latest science factoid is and actually run with it. Even the moon landing, which given the media coverage of it nearly every person in America saw on television, hasn't really affect their lives in any significant way.

We here seem to get all excited over our dogmatic views of things and overwrought in our arguments, but if we look around there simply isn't many people doing cartwheels over these little peccadilloes we so easily rant on and on about here.

We need to keep things in perspective.

P1234567890

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6813 Location: USA

seems to me that turn about would be fair play. The science side here,appears to want to rail against the bible and does so every chance it gets. Just look at how many areas of the bible are being attacked in the many threads in this forum!

I'd LOVE it if you guys acted like the average Joe on the street and just ignored scripture. That would be a *major* leap forward!

FFT · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:53 am Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:54 am Post subject:

The televised moon landing everyone watched, it was good media. But how it changed everyone's life is still up for grabs. People don't think much about it anymore.

But global warming invades our everyday lives and expects us to completely change our lives in every aspect, even if we might think it is untrue, the expectation is still there. Their advocates seem to think that their ranting will force us into changing our minds when quite the opposite is true.

It is like a cult where the leader claims all authority and forces its members to throw away everything they hold dear just to meet the acceptance of the leader. Few are that gullible, but there's always a few. IF global warming is as dire as the extremist say then life will be different and we will get used to it. Yawn. Otherwise leave us alone.

P1234567890 · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:00 am Post subject:

P1234567890 · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:02 am Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:16 am Post subject:

Rather than engaging you about religion I would defer to Metaphysics which is slightly different than religion per se. Metaphysics deals frequently with things that are not detectable by scientific instruments, and therefore not subject to the same type of investigation that science offers us.

I would suggest that metaphysics is far more important than science in it's quest for meaning in the universe. A quest that science is impotent to deal with. While good science can fill our minds with facts, it has little to nothing to say regarding establishing meaning for those facts.

What we've been dealing with is science which is attempting to eliminate metaphysics simply because their instruments don't register anything when they point them at metaphysical things. They say there is 'nothing there' and therefore we can ignore them. Science is attempting to take over all intellectual processes by eliminating the competition. To 'zero out' the facts of metaphysics in favor of those trivial issues of science which can be determined and what is humanity left with, a totally meaningless existence filled with meaningless facts that offer no value for the truly important issues of life.

That is why I offer a resistance to the hegemony of science. No, I dont 'hate' science, good science is a valuable thing for society. Bad science is evil though.

P1234567890 · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:02 am Post subject:

You again have mis-characterized my point of view. It is not science itself that is bad but the attitude of many of the scientists.

Hierarchy of significance and I assume for this analogy that they are all true.

1.Data bits
2.facts
3.knowledge
4.wisdom

Wisdom is the place where meaning is applied and where values are discovered and every thing is put into its proper category. It is a place where science, which provides all those myriad of facts to us, must step aside and allow another sort of process to take place. In this analogy knowledge is an integrative process that brings patterns into play , where the many different points of view add to each other and begin to build something of value.

Science is wonderfully able to provide the grist of this endeavor but it is difficult for it to integrate them due to contraints of academia (Not impossibly though). Even so the stuff of science is valueless because it is in the stages where wisdom works where values are added. Science has nothing to add to the discussion of values.

Holistic understanding requires far more than what we typically get from academia. Each scientific discipline is a separate entity unto itself forcing its members to narrowly focus on issues at hand. Which historically is why such concepts as Chaos theory(for example) has had such a hard time getting accepted because it transcends all barriers of disciplines and it is seen as "invading" other disciplines.

Holistic understanding /interdisciplinary work has had a difficult time getting accepted because it confuses the boundaries of, and definitions of the work it does. Eliminating the easy black and white answers that society loves to see. Yet it is here in the interstices of real life where definitions really are blurred that applies the values to what we want and do. Wisdom is far beyond the scope of science and while the stuff of science is important it is not the apex of this process.

P1234567890 · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:00 am Post subject:

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6813 Location: USA

P1234567890 · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:50 am Post subject:

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6813 Location: USA

P123... your arguments are irrelevant to the fact that you completely disregarded, or could not understand what 45 (and I in various threads discussing the same thing repeatedly) has been stating regarding the value of science and the distrust of scientists.

P1234567890 · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: