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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1549
Location: BC
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 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: |
| RevJP wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Why are we mammals? When, as you claim, God created us by fiat, how come he chose for us to be mammals? |
I fail to see any relevance to any argument, at all. |
Yeah to be honest I don't get this one either. Unless he means to point to the fact that biologically we're not really different from other mammals. |
I believe it's an argument against 'special creation'. If God let the animals evolve but created humans specially, why would he use a template from an animal (an evolved animal, no less)? In fact, leave the evolution out - if God created humans specially, why did he use an animal template? |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | If God let the animals evolve but created humans specially, why would he use a template from an animal (an evolved animal, no less)? |
Animals do not evolve from one kind to another...canines produce canines, fruit flies produce fruit flies. God created animals.....the facts clearly back this up. Not ToE assumptions, but the facts I've simply and plainly pointed out. Keep your assumptions in the assumption file.
We can talk about assumptions, readjust them a bit if we need to, but facts are facts. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1549
Location: BC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | | Ana wrote: | | If God let the animals evolve but created humans specially, why would he use a template from an animal (an evolved animal, no less)? |
Animals do not evolve from one kind to another...canines produce canines, fruit flies produce fruit flies. God created animals.....the facts clearly back this up. Not ToE assumptions, but the facts I've simply and plainly pointed out. Keep your assumptions in the assumption file.
We can talk about assumptions, readjust them a bit if we need to, but facts are facts. |
This is about the idea of "special creation." You see, my point (actually, it's my wording of P's point) is about disagreement of the idea of special creation: if God created humans specially, why did he use an animal template to do so? Note that I'm not talking about evolution in this question. It doesn't actually matter whether the animals evolved or not for this, though if they did evolve, then it makes the point even stronger.
Anyways, to address your thoughts here, your idea of "kinds" sounds a little like how we name stuff. Here, let me try a picture of an evolution tree:
.............o
............/.\
..........o....\
........./|\....o <--- When we named them "Fruit Flies"
......../.o.o../\
......o........o o<---two distinct species that go under the moniker "Fruit Flies" |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ana, you say two distinct species; I say two fruit flies that can't mate.<----that's a period.
What your witnessing with the fruit fly experimentation is.....sympatric speciation which is associated with....assortative mating. This has nothing to do with fruit-fly-kind evolving into some-other-kind. Please don't try to con me. I'm impressionable. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1549
Location: BC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Dust wrote: | Ana, you say two distinct species; I say two fruit flies that can't mate.<----that's a period.
What your witnessing with the fruit fly experimentation is.....sympatric speciation which is associated with....assortative mating. This has nothing to do with fruit-fly-kind evolving into some-other-kind. Please don't try to con me. I'm impressionable. |
I'm not saying they have to turn into some other kind. I'm not even sure how to work with the concept of 'kind' other than that it seems to be based on layman naming habits. You seem to think I have to re-classify these subgroups of "fruit flies" into "horse" or "duck" categories in order for it to be an example of evolution, which is not what evolution postulates. Evolution postulates a picture like the one I drew, that, over time, will continue to grow new branches. |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 881
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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A perfect empirical example of the picture you drew is the breeding of canines. The result, obtained over thousands of years, is that canines produce canines.
The experimentation result of thousands upon thousands of generations of fruit flies.....is that fruit flies, even under extreme pressures, produce fruit flies, apparently in variation, but still catagorically, and empirically, fruit flies. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1549
Location: BC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Where would you like to put the branch for emerging fruit flies and the branch for dingoes? Again, I think you think that evolution postulates they should be grafted onto the "hippo" part of the tree or something. Or rather, I think you think that a branch on the fruit fly part of the tree should look like a hippo branch (or maybe even be one). |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6817
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If God let the animals evolve but created humans specially, why would he use a template from an animal (an evolved animal, no less)? In fact, leave the evolution out - if God created humans specially, why did he use an animal template? |
Why not?
If God created the master blueprint for all life: DNA, then why not use the organization of that blueprint to create a lifeform best suited for His purposes? |
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