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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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 Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: What do they Believe? |
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The reason I`m so quite on this forum -JW- Is I actually don`t know everything they believe, can anyone tell me what they believe?
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Prys die Heer! |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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PrysdieHeer!,
Hi, 
It souldn't be difficult to find out what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. We go door to door talking to our neighbors to encourage Bible reading and study and we encourage honest questions like yours. You can also go to http://www.watchtower.org/ to find some information. If you look up Jehovah's Witnesses on a search engine you will find many sites that may look official but they speak against us using lies and half truths.
We believe the Bible is God's inspired word, and it is where we learn of God's will for us and we recieve the principles in which live our lives, and it is where we learn what God has in store for the future.
The Bible is clear that:
Alone, God is Jehovah.
Jesus is the first being created and assisted God in creating all other things. He gave up that glorious position for a time to come to earth to provide the sacrifice mankind needed to buy them out of the sorry state Adam sold us into.
The Holy Spirit is God's active force that God uses to accomplish His will. God can portion it out to others to benefit them as well.
Satan is now the ruler of this system of things and soon Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, will will come in Jehovah's name to destroy Satan's old order causing God's kingdom to rule over the entire earth and bringing the benefits of his sacrifice to all humans who survive into that time, and who are resurrected during that time.
That kingdom that people pray for in "the Lord's prayer" (Matt 6:9-13) is a literal goverment now established in heaven and will shortly fulfill Dan 2:44.
(Daniel 2:44) “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;
The condition it will bring are recorded in Rev 21.
(Revelation 21:1-4) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
Hope that was helpful.
Is there anything more specific you would like to know?
Last edited by TBax on Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RR
Little Guppy
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 37
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| In general, the JW's believer they are the ONE TRUE RELIGION and that all other religions are of the Devil. There is no salvation outside of the JW religion. |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Who would be a JW if they didn't believe it was the true religion?
There is only one path to life, not multiple paths.  |
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ragman13
Alley Cat
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We believe the Bible is God's inspired word, and it is where we learn of God's will for us and we recieve the principles in which live our lives, and it is where we learn what God has in store for the future. |
But they change the Bible to fit there doctine.
| Quote: | The Bible is clear that:
Alone, God is Jehovah. |
They deny the Trinity
| Quote: | | Jesus is the first being created and assisted God in creating all other things. He gave up that glorious position for a time to come to earth to provide the sacrifice mankind needed to buy them out of the sorry state Adam sold us into. |
They believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel. They also do not worship Jesus.
| Quote: | | The Holy Spirit is God's active force that God uses to accomplish His will. God can portion it out to others to benefit them as well. |
They deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
| Quote: | | Satan is now the ruler of this system of things and soon Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, will will come in Jehovah's name to destroy Satan's old order causing God's kingdom to rule over the entire earth and bringing the benefits of his sacrifice to all humans who survive into that time, and who are resurrected during that time. |
They believe the only ones to be resurrected are the JW's. |
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RR
Little Guppy
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 37
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | Who would be a JW if they didn't believe it was the true religion? There is only one path to life, not multiple paths. |
Well, we (my association) believes we have the Truth, and yet we do not condemn those who do not join us to second death. After all Jesus died a "ransom for all", and we believe EVERYONE will have the opportunity to know the Lord and what he did for us.
Perhaps you should read "The Divine Plan of the Ages" TBax, get back to your roots. 
RR |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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ragman13,
| ragman wrote: | | But they change the Bible to fit there doctine. |
Untrue. Our NW translation happens to be more accurate. Personally I use many Bibles, and your statement is false.
| ragman wrote: | | They deny the Trinity |
Absolutly!!!
Jesus didn't teach a trinity.
John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.
| ragman wrote: | | They believe the only ones to be resurrected are the JW's. |
Totally false!!! Get your facts straight.
Acts 24:15 and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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RR,
Hi,
| RR wrote: | | Well, we (my association) believes we have the Truth, |
What is your association?
| RR wrote: | | yet we do not condemn those who do not join us to second death. |
We don't condemn people. Judging belongs to God and Jesus. However we know we have the truth. If we didn't believe that we wouldn't be here. God is now allowing time for people to accept the good news the Bible holds out. If they don't accept it they are responsible for their own action, not us.
| RR wrote: | | After all Jesus died a "ransom for all", |
Yes. All have the opportunity. Not all accept it. 
John 3:36 He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him. |
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RR
Little Guppy
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 37
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | RR, What is your association? |
I am a Bible Student.
| TBax wrote: | | We don't condemn people. Judging belongs to God and Jesus. However we know we have the truth. If we didn't believe that we wouldn't be here. God is now allowing time for people to accept the good news the Bible holds out. If they don't accept it they are responsible for their own action, not us. |
So what you are sating TB, is that Jehovah's Witnesses are actually messengers of death not Good News. For if knocking on doors to enlighten people is rejected, they have been marked. Why not leave them in thir ignorance, they wouold have a better opportunity.
| TBax wrote: | | All have the opportunity. Not all accept it. |
Agreed. The issue is "WHEN" is their opportunity, now or during the thousand-year reign?
I believe the latter!
RR |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5711
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ragman13 wrote: | | TBax wrote: | | The Holy Spirit is God's active force that God uses to accomplish His will. God can portion it out to others to benefit them as well. |
They deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit. |
Does the Bible say any different? |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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RR,
| RR wrote: | | So what you are sating TB, is that Jehovah's Witnesses are actually messengers of death not Good News. |
If people want to reject the good news that is their choice. If a house is burning and I tell the people inside that their house is burning and the people ignor the warning and go back inside does that make me a messenger of death? I gave them the oppurtunity, their choice killed them.
| RR wrote: | | For if knocking on doors to enlighten people is rejected, they have been marked. Why not leave them in thir ignorance, they wouold have a better opportunity. |
What?
Paul showed that if he didn't preach the good news he would be blood guilty. People need to know.
The good news will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come. Why? So people can choose life, choose to obey God.
2 Pet 3:9 Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 10 Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.
| RR wrote: | The issue is "WHEN" is their opportunity, now or during the thousand-year reign?
I believe the latter!
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If you were correct there would be no reason for this system to continue so others can attain to repentance. |
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ragman13
Alley Cat
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Tbax wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | ragman wrote:
But they change the Bible to fit there doctine. |
Untrue. Our NW translation happens to be more accurate. Personally I use many Bibles, and your statement is false. |
NWT IS UNTRUE!
| Quote: | 1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters. |
(NWT Gen 1:1,2)
| Quote: | In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. |
(NASB Gen 1:1,2)
ruwach <07307>
Active force is a mistranslation to put forward views held by the JW's. NOT ACCURATE!
| Quote: | | “And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of favor and entreaties, and they will certainly look to the One whom they pierced through, and they will certainly wail over Him as in the wailing over an only [son]; and there will be a bitter lamentation over him as when there is bitter lamentation over the firstborn [son]. |
(Zech. 12:10 NWT)
| Quote: | | "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. |
(Zech. 12:10 NASB)
Again the Watchtower has changed a Verse becouse it does not agree with their doctrine. Changing [ON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED]. And also adding the word through, to suport another belief. Adding and changing words to fit your beliefs is not accurate.
And then of course the watchtower also changed John 1:1, Col. 1:15-17,Heb. 1:6, and Heb. 1:8
NWT moto is "if it doesn't fit our theological bias then we just change it."
So who's the great translators of the NWT?
Your standing in quick sand and telling everyone that its solid ground. |
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RR
Little Guppy
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 37
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | If people want to reject the good news that is their choice. If a house is burning and I tell the people inside that their house is burning and the people ignor the warning and go back inside does that make me a messenger of death? I gave them the oppurtunity, their choice killed them. |
You obviously do not understand the purpose of the Witness work.
Let me ask you something. Why is this system of things still in operation? Can you answer that with a scripture TB?
RR |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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ragman13,
| footnote Gen 1:2 wrote: | | “And . . . active force (spirit).” Heb., weru′ach. Besides being translated “spirit,” ru′ach is also translated “wind” and by other words that denote an invisible active force. |
| ragman wrote: | | Again the Watchtower has changed a Verse becouse it does not agree with their doctrine. Changing [ON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED]. |
You believe the Bible says God was pierced?
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
If no man has seen God, how did they pierce Him?
Regarding John 1:1-
If Jesus was with God then how could he be God???
The greek speaking people would have understood that Jesus was not "the God" as the definite article isn't there.
The NWT is more accurate and was proved such by an individual who actually compared the different english translations and a hebrew scholar.
| Hebrew scholar Dr Benjamin Kedar wrote: | | "In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translation, I often refer to the English edition as what is known as the New World Translation. In doing so, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this kind of work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew....Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain." |
BOLD MINE
Jason David BeDuhn is an associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University, in Flagstaff. He holds a B.A. in Religious studies from the University of Illinois, Urbana, and M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in the Comparative Study of Religions from Indiana University, Bloomington.
Jason David BeDuhn from the introduction of Truth in translation
| Quote: | Thousands of biblical researchers in America have [the three necessary credentials to do Bible translation. That is, they have the ability to accurately evaluate: (1) linguistic content, (2) literary context, and (3) historical and cultural environment as the basis for valid assessment of Bible translation.] And I am one of them. That is why I feel somewhat justified in writing this book.
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| Jason David BeDuhn wrote: | While it is difficult to quantify this sort of analysis, it can be said that the NWT emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared. Holding a close second to the NWT in its accuracy, judging by the passages we have looked at, is the NAB. Both of these are translations produced by single denominations of Christianity. . . .
I have pondered why these two translations, of all those considered, turned out to be the least biased.[*] I don't know the answer for certain. The reason might be different in each case. But, at the risk of greatly oversimplifying things, I think one common element the two denominations behind these translation share is the freedom from what I call the Protestant's Burden. . . .
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BOLD MINE
| Jason David BeDuhn wrote: | | Having concluded that the NWT is one of the most accurate English translations of the New Testament currently available, |
BOLD MINE
Refering to the so-called bias:
| BeDuhn wrote: | | Most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation." |
BOLD MINE
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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RR,
| RR wrote: | | You obviously do not understand the purpose of the Witness work. |
Yes. I have only been doing it for 40 years, but I don't know the purpose. 
| RR wrote: | | Why is this system of things still in operation? |
Matt 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,
Matt 24:14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
2 Pet 3:9 Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 10 Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.
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