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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ya know what JP, if what I am suggesting is too much trouble for you, then by all means don't do it. I am only trying to pass on some valuable experience to you.
What I am suggesting will cost this forum NOTHING.
What it CAN DO is save a life, and I'm not joking.
If a someone's life is not worth your trouble, then ok - I tried my best.
Look Rev, I AM on your side. I'm just trying to save everyone a lot of unnecessary grief. There a lot of hurt feelings and resentment due to the way things are run currently. You can't deny that. For the final time -
I HAD TO FIND OUT THE HARD WAY, THAT BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS BANNED, THAT MAN COMMITTED SUICIDE.
If I could go back, and change the rules in order to save a life, I would do it. But no. I let my ego get in the way instead. I thought I knew better than anyone. I WAS WRONG.
I'm just trying to help you avoid the same mistake.
That's all.
_________________
Pain is inevitable;
misery is optional. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6903
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Oh man, it'll be three years for me in a couple of days. I'm not sure how I feel about this. |
At times the idea seems scary, but not being here would seem like missing a limb...
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | Oh man, it'll be three years for me in a couple of days. I'm not sure how I feel about this. |
At times the idea seems scary, but not being here would seem like missing a limb... |
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Now put yourself in that lost soul's place.
You've been banned. No way you can access in order to repent or explain your side of it. Your "brothers and sisters" have left you totally out in the cold.
How would you feel???
I'm just asking for a little compassion here.
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Pain is inevitable;
misery is optional. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6903
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You've been banned. No way you can access in order to repent or explain your side of it. Your "brothers and sisters" have left you totally out in the cold. |
Exactly how many times would we be required to provide an offender the opportunity to mend their way? 70x7? What if we've gone well beyond that? What if the warnings we've given only resulted in an increase in vile and objectionable behavior? What if the numerous warnings resulted in a barrage of threats and insults, attempts to hack and sabotage the boards, personal emails, etc?
I would have loved to have these people 'repent', but they choose not to. They choose instead to lie, threaten, point fingers, and create more problems. Should we let them back in spite of their vileness, or because of it?
The thing I, and Mojo, have been trying to point out to you, and whoever else may be reading this repeat, is this:
NO ONE has been banned from this board who was not given ample opportunity to change their behavior. NO ONE was banned that did not have the situation explained to them ad nauseum. That YOU were not privy to those discussions means absolutely nothing. That YOU continue to suggest that the admin is just capriciously banning members with no cause and no warning speaks volumes to me regarding issues of character.
| Quote: | | I'm just asking for a little compassion here |
I believe we have demonstrated far more compassion in this issue than you have with your accusations and assaults.
| Quote: | | There a lot of hurt feelings and resentment due to the way things are run currently. You can't deny that. |
Honestly, I am aware of only a few people who are resentful and have hurt feelings. Some because they miss some members who have refused to follow the rules and have been booted, some because they have swallowed the lies of others who have gone out of their way to violate the rules, offend the membership and staff, and have falsely claimed innocence.
I suppose I could post the numerous emails I have personally received from some of the missing members and demonstrate to you the despicable depths they have gone to for whatever mentally unstable reasons they may have, but for one thing, the bulk of the messages would be censored by the automated censor and the threats to me and my family members would prove extremely unsettling to the current membership.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1200
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Rev: | Quote: | | I suppose I could post the numerous emails I have personally received from some of the missing members and demonstrate to you the despicable depths they have gone to for whatever mentally unstable reasons they may have, but for one thing, the bulk of the messages would be censored by the automated censor and the threats to me and my family members would prove extremely unsettling to the current membership. |
Honestly, putting myself in the position of those that have been booted, I would feel that the moderators were violating a trust if I PM'd them and they made the contents of that PM or those PM's available to the public.
If you think about it, Eleven, we do know what was going on in some of these threads and why some were locked.
I do know what it is like to be threatened by someone on this board. I was threatened by someone who is or was a member on this forum. That one was pretty bad, pretty nasty and pretty unnecessary. That is the one and only time I have ever reported another posters behavior via PM to a moderator. There have been other times that a couple of other 'spiritual' siblings sent me nasty PM's. It's not acceptable to me and it should not be tolerated by the Mods. Have some compassion for them, too. They are in a tough spot.
Will I miss TSS? Same as MoJo....yes. Sometimes the Mods are called upon to make the tough decisions. Yes, we all feel badly about it. You are responsible to behave on this board. I am responsible to behave on this board. If I break board rules or treat others with disrespect, I know the rules. I expect the Mods to let me know.
Sorry if you think I'm kissing up but they make some excellent points here and unless you have been treated the way I was treated and the mods have been treated you may not understand. I turned the other cheek and got blasted. It sounds like they turned the other cheek and got the same treatment.
I work in the Customer Service industry. I have been treated like I know nothing, I've been called dirty names, hung up on, yelled at, threatened etc... by so-called adults.
For my own peace of mind, for my health and to maintain a little dignity, I really try not to tolerate that (mis)behavior (though sometimes I do let it go on too long). I give a warning and then I hang up. I don't have to take that. Neither do the Mods. Have a heart. Think about it from their perspective.
On a happier note....
P.S. FFT: HAPPY UPCOMING 3RD ANNIVERSARY! 
Luv
_________________
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Biblegateway Christian Viewpoints |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Ya know, this is amazing to me.
Does anyone actually read these posts?
I an NOT talking about posting PM's or violating anyone's privacy.
All I said was start a thread called violations.
I don't want to repeat myself, I've already posted it twice. It's a very simple and easy idea. It would save all this aggravation and could save someone's life.
I can't believe that the very people who keep going on about God's mercy and love find possibly saving a life too much trouble. Wow.
But God said it best. As you treat other people, so shall you be treated.
Have a nice day.
_________________
Pain is inevitable;
misery is optional. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6903
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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I an NOT talking about posting PM's or violating anyone's privacy.
All I said was start a thread called violations. |
I, we, understand this is one point you have argued. But it isn't necessary. The only purpose I see it serving is to inform everyone of discussions which are really none of their business.
If we did not speak the violators individually then the suggestion may be valid, but that is not, and has never been the case. So tell me, what purpose would it serve other than feed the curiosity of those not involved?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | please someone explain to me why it is anyone's concern as to the reasons why the administration takes some actions. |
Because the attitude of “We’re in charge so what you think doesn’t count,” is extremely Soviet in nature. Participation in a forum is not mere intellectual self-gratification, but is, rather, an exercise in the humanity of community. And nobody with a measure of humanity wants people in their community to go POOF – a cyber equivalent of the secret death squads making people disappear in third world countries.
| RevJP wrote: | | We do it because this IS a cyber family to us, not just a place to while away extra hours because we have nothing else to do. |
Then at least have the decency to extend your family metaphor to include the event where a parent kicks their kid out the door. You don’t think the other kids should get upset?
| RevJP wrote: | | Unfortunately we do not always get the same courtesy in return. |
Courtesy is in the eye of the beholder as This Post would seem to show.
| RevJP wrote: | | NO ONE has been banned from this board who was not given ample opportunity to change their behavior. |
I was. Without warning and without any explanation back in 06. Just one day, POOF. I had to email FFT to find out what happened (and to be reinstated). I’ve never since been informed Who or Why it was done. I happen to think the example Ana provided shows an appropriate measure of respect to all the participants involved, and hope Admin can find some time from discovering the wonders of China (and Chinese food) to consider her proposal.
Yehu
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There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | I was. Without warning and without any explanation back in 06. Just one day, POOF. I had to email FFT to find out what happened (and to be reinstated). I’ve never since been informed Who or Why it was done. |
Ah, to be fair "someone" had just turned off your ability to PM. Or at least that's what you emailed me about and what I talked to admin about.
For the record, I don't think that a "ban thread" is necessarily a bad thing. If nothing else, people can't complain that it doesn't exist. Just a simple "[user] loses posting privileges for x days due to y" or "[user] is permanently banned due to y" and that sort of thing.
It would be great if all the users would just ignore it but I think that may be asking too much.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3238
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I'm of two minds here; I do agree that people shouldn't be made to go POOF without informing the membership and sometimes not even the mods are told. For instance, I had no idea that Yehu could not access in 06. I was just under the impression that he had left suddenly.
| Yehu wrote: | | Because the attitude of “We’re in charge so what you think doesn’t count,” is extremely Soviet in nature. Participation in a forum is not mere intellectual self-gratification, but is, rather, an exercise in the humanity of community. And nobody with a measure of humanity wants people in their community to go POOF – a cyber equivalent of the secret death squads making people disappear in third world countries. |
I do think this is rather an unfair dramatization of events. Since the offences of most who went POOF were clearly visible on the board, and warnings were given on the board, and people ignored those warnings by continuing in their behavior, the only thing we are really discussing is whether an official announcement of their banning should be made known to the membership and this I can agree with.
Lately, I have had some thoughts on the disappearing acts of some. If we truly believe we are a family and kin in the body of Christ, why would we just leave without a word to our family members? We wouldn't do it to our flesh and blood kin. So, it cuts two ways. There are those who really do consider us a cyber family and those who form no true attachment and to them we are just faceless names for awhile. And I had this thought about you, Yehu, and others who have suddenly disappeared. So, at times communications do break down all the way around.
Eleven, I understand what you're saying, although the violations have been posted. They have been posted within the threads where the violations have occurred. Now I understand that people may not read all of the threads and would therefore miss these posts. So, you're idea may have merit as long as posted violations are not accounted as threads open to debate.
_________________
matt 6: 34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| MoJo wrote: |
Eleven, I understand what you're saying, although the violations have been posted. They have been posted within the threads where the violations have occurred. |
This is usually true (which is good because of the setting an example thing), but to be fair, this isn't true in the case of Apoc. The man of a thousand faces charade that happened after the initial banning is open display and a clear violation of board rules, but I've seen a number of posts by members wondering what happened initially. In fact, it seems even he doesn't know why he was banned.
| MoJo wrote: |
Now I understand that people may not read all of the threads and would therefore miss these posts. So, you're idea may have merit as long as posted violations are not accounted as threads open to debate. |
In my example, they aren't open to debate except, perhaps, by other mods.
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2740
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| MoJo wrote: | | I had no idea that Yehu could not access in 06. I was just under the impression that he had left suddenly. |
My abject apologies.  I had taken a personal sabbatical for about a year, and might need to do so again as my financial status has turned for the worst.
In any case I must defer to FFT's recollection that only my PM was affected rather than my login. (So much to think about, so little memory )
| MoJo wrote: | | I do think this is rather an unfair dramatization of events. |
But then again, I'm quite a dramatic guy!
Yehu
PS: For what it's worth, I have seen other similar forums where "banned" was seen between one's name and avatar, instead of the nickname corresponding to one's number of posts.
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There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3238
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | The man of a thousand faces charade that happened after the initial banning is open display and a clear violation of board rules, but I've seen a number of posts by members wondering what happened initially. |
So the ones wondering what happened initially are just curious. I believe wilber joined just after apoc was banned or very near the time, so it baffles me why he should be so adamently curious about a person he claims he didn't know, jump to the defense of a total stranger and criticize the moderators in complete ignorance of the history. Rather curious, wouldn't you agree? How long will we keep having to explain this incident? Should people who join a year from now have their cuoriosity satisfied about things that went on before them?
| Quote: | | In fact, it seems even he doesn't know why he was banned |
Well, this does seem to be the mantra of people who try to justify their bad behavior. It's "who me? what did I do"
Not that I'm putting them in the same league, but didn't Saddam claim justfication for murdering his own people right up to the end? And I'm sure you can add any number of others to the list who are always innocent in their own minds.
Reminds me of a jailbird I used to know; thought he was perfectly justified in handing me a bullet as a message to one of my employees. He even talked about a code of ethics. One has to come to the realization that a certain segment of the population are alien to the same moral standards we might hold dear.
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matt 6: 34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't exactly lend credence to the idea that we've all got some objective moral code written on us, does it?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| MoJo wrote: |
How long will we keep having to explain this incident? Should people who join a year from now have their cuoriosity satisfied about things that went on before them? |
Conspiracy theory about wilber aside, one time would be sufficient.
According to this post, you've labelled the whole thing as 'taboo'.
Here's the one where you and Nobby tell everyone not to ask questions or talk to him because we will be frowned upon.
These aren't explanations. If he did something bad, you can just say "Apoc has used filthy language and this will not be tolerated" or "Apoc has been harrassing members via the private message system" (for example) and that would be quite sufficient.
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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