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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2499
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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 Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Christian Atheists ? |
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Is that a Oxymoron.....a contradiction of words ?
Actually, there are far more of them than anyone might think.
And they go to church every Sunday.
Since Atheists are defined as not believing in God.....what about so-called Christians, who reject certain portions of Scripture, as the absolute word of God ?
That certainly is an atheistic atitude, isn't it ?
Consider if you know of a single Christian who follows the Bible's instruction on what to eat, or not to eat.....for example ?
And if you say that what a person eats has nothing to do with the Gospel message......THAT is atheism.
Because God has many things to say about it.
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Another example of Christian atheism, is trying to combine Creationism and Evolution together. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Christian Atheists ? |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | Is that a Oxymoron.....a contradiction of words ?
Actually, there are far more of them than anyone might think.
And they go to church every Sunday.
Since Atheists are defined as not believing in God.....what about so-called Christians, who reject certain portions of Scripture, as the absolute word of God ?
That certainly is an atheistic atitude, isn't it ?
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What are you talking about?!? If someone claims that the Bible isn't LITERALLY true, word for word, cover to cover, then they can EASILY still believe in God. So this obviously doesn't make them atheists.
| Silver Surfer wrote: |
Consider if you know of a single Christian who follows the Bible's instruction on what to eat, or not to eat.....for example ?
And if you say that what a person eats has nothing to do with the Gospel message......THAT is atheism.
Because God has many things to say about it.
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No, this really isn't atheism. Atheism is when you don't believe in God, period, full stop. Slight nuances in HOW someone believes in God doesn't even come close to the definition of atheism, since the person in questions still obviously believes in God.
| Silver Surfer wrote: |
Another example of Christian atheism, is trying to combine Creationism and Evolution together. |
No, because if someone believes in creationism, then they believe in God, which means that they are NOT atheists! |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Silver wrote:
| Quote: | | Another example of Christian atheism, is trying to combine Creationism and Evolution together |
I suppose it depends on what we put on our plate..so to speak..
I'm one of those people that take a little bit of everything and eat it in one bite. Like if I have chicken, mashed potatoes and peas..I will take some chicken some potato and some peas and put them all on a fork and eat them together. Sometimes I just mix it all up in my plate to begin with..lol..
Now somethings I don't particularly like, so I will combine that with something I do like to make it go down easier.
Because sometimes the things we don't like are the things that are most beneficial to us.
| Quote: | | Consider if you know of a single Christian who follows the Bible's instruction on what to eat, or not to eat.....for example ? |
The bible says Jesus told the disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees...and they thought he was talking about bread..real bread. But he was talking about their doctrines and their teachings.
We are told to eat "spiritual fruit", eat "spiritual meat", and drink "spiritual milk"...
(what if your lactose intolerant..or a vegetarian  )
I believe when the OT is talking concerning clean and unclean foods, that the diet is based upon the characteristics of those things which should not be eaten. It's not the "real" food, but rather the "spiritual" food we need to consider clean and unclean..
and yet, The Angel told Peter that God has cleansed all things..so I suppose that means that all foods are edible, but not all foods are good for you. And we are to use our best judgment an knowledge when making "healthy choices".
Now creationism and evolution both share a place on my plate. I can eat them seperately or I can eat them together. Makes no difference to me, they both taste pretty good. And neither one gives me indigestion unless I believe that what I'm eating is bad for me.
Evolution says..that mankind came from the particles or what have you of the earth. The bible says that man was created from the particles or dust of the earth..
I see no contradiction there. The only opposition I have between evolution and creationism is the distinction between man and animal. I believe man "evolved" or was "created" with the ability to reason and to learn things that are not a part of animal instinct. Man is "higher" or more "intelligent" species. Even though sometimes our intelligence leads us into stupidity.. 
| Quote: | | Since Atheists are defined as not believing in God.....what about so-called Christians, who reject certain portions of Scripture, as the absolute word of God ? |
I think, in order to be a true atheist, one must reject all scripture as the word of God.
I think a true atheist believes that man wrote the bible and God has nothing to do with it.
They don't believe that God is love, and the spirit of love moves through the pages of the bible giving us direction on how we should or shouldn't learn to live with eachother.
In my opinion...
evolution without creationism is empty, flat, all scientific with no hmm..awe or joy or wonder in it. It just is..Just the facts ma'am..
creation without evolution is too bloated, too fluffy, no earthly solid foundation in which knowledge and truth can be seen and felt tangibly. Discoveries and investigations can only be made on a spiritual level, there is no room for the facts.
There are a lot of answers in both evolution and creationism that could benefit both sides of the aisle, if they took the time to talk to eachother and learn from eachother.
anywhoo..
just sharin my thoughts..
hugs
lone |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1663
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| This is a great post for starting discussion, thanks SilverSurfer. |
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I don`t believe it I actually agree with P1234567890, An atheist is someone who denies the existence of God, you get people who does not deny His existence, but denies His word!
In other word:
There is a difference between Believing God, and believing God!
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Prys die Heer! |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2499
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: | I don`t believe it I actually agree with P1234567890, An atheist is someone who denies the existence of God, you get people who does not deny His existence, but denies His word!
In other word:
There is a difference between Believing IN God, and believing God!
Prys die Heer! |
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Prys die Heer![/quote]How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John) |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John) |
There are lots of proposed gods out there. It's pretty easy to deny scripture without denying God. You for example are quite happy to deny the 'word' of the Muslim God without denying Him.
Lots of people deny the Bible but still believe in God. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2499
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John) |
There are lots of proposed gods out there. It's pretty easy to deny scripture without denying God. You for example are quite happy to deny the 'word' of the Muslim God without denying Him.
Lots of people deny the Bible but still believe in God. |
That is impossible !
The word of God, and God are the same thing.
22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John) |
There are lots of proposed gods out there. It's pretty easy to deny scripture without denying God. You for example are quite happy to deny the 'word' of the Muslim God without denying Him.
Lots of people deny the Bible but still believe in God. |
That is impossible !
The word of God, and God are the same thing.
22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. |
Are you saying that the Bible is the same as God? Do you worship the Bible? I understand if you say the Bible is the Word of God...but to say the Bible is the same thing as God, no way. We are to worship God, not the Bible. Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected, not the Bible. Does the Bible give us God's Word? Yes. Does it give us revelation of Him? Yes. Is it the same thing as God? NO.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The Bible is inspired by God, but not the same thing as God. |
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | PrysdieHeer! wrote: | I don`t believe it I actually agree with P1234567890, An atheist is someone who denies the existence of God, you get people who does not deny His existence, but denies His word!
In other word:
There is a difference between Believing IN God, and believing God!
Prys die Heer! |
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Prys die Heer! |
How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John)[/quote]
I agree with you, but What I am saying is some people believe the existence of God, but they don`t believe (trust) Him. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John) |
There are lots of proposed gods out there. It's pretty easy to deny scripture without denying God. You for example are quite happy to deny the 'word' of the Muslim God without denying Him.
Lots of people deny the Bible but still believe in God. |
That is impossible !
The word of God, and God are the same thing.
22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. |
First of all, you seem to be confusing God and the Word of God. They are clearly different things.
But more importantly, it most certainly is possible to deny the Bible but still believe in God. Just look at all of the Hindus, Muslims, Bah'ais, etc. out there. |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John) |
There are lots of proposed gods out there. It's pretty easy to deny scripture without denying God. You for example are quite happy to deny the 'word' of the Muslim God without denying Him.
Lots of people deny the Bible but still believe in God. |
That is impossible !
The word of God, and God are the same thing.
22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. |
First of all, you seem to be confusing God and the Word of God. They are clearly different things.
But more importantly, it most certainly is possible to deny the Bible but still believe in God. Just look at all of the Hindus, Muslims, Bah'ais, etc. out there. |
I agree with you P. I also see that some who claim to believe in the "Christian" God do not believe in the "inerrancy, infallibility" of the Bible. It doesn't mean that they don't believe in "God." What about Mormons and JW's, they have "extrabiblical" sources for their beliefs but they "claim" to believe in God. I have a problem with the Mormom concept of God and the JW concept of Jesus but they do "claim" to believe in God. Just because someone doesn't hold a "high view" of the Bible doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe in God. |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 646
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | | PrysdieHeer! wrote: | I don`t believe it I actually agree with P1234567890, An atheist is someone who denies the existence of God, you get people who does not deny His existence, but denies His word!
In other word:
There is a difference between Believing IN God, and believing God!
Prys die Heer! |
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Prys die Heer! |
How does anyone separate God from His word ?
The Bible clearly shows the 'word' of God and Jesus Christ is the very same thing (read the 1st chapter of John) |
I agree with you, but What I am saying is some people believe the existence of God, but they don`t believe (trust) Him.[/quote]
The "Word of God" in John 1 referring to Jesus and the "Word of God" referring to the Bible are not the same. You need to do a bit of Greek/Biblical study I'm afraid. God transcends the written word. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| pastor2022 wrote: |
I agree with you P. I also see that some who claim to believe in the "Christian" God do not believe in the "inerrancy, infallibility" of the Bible. It doesn't mean that they don't believe in "God." What about Mormons and JW's, they have "extrabiblical" sources for their beliefs but they "claim" to believe in God. I have a problem with the Mormom concept of God and the JW concept of Jesus but they do "claim" to believe in God. Just because someone doesn't hold a "high view" of the Bible doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe in God. |
Yes, exactly. |
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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!P2022
I`m not sure what you are saying, but since you agree with P1234567890, I`m sure I agree with you.
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Prys die Heer! |
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