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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7633
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
Satan uses them and I forget whom I am fighting.....Satan
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Sweet! Now I'm one of Satan's pawns!
Remember what I said about crazy-talk?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7633
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
| P1234567890 wrote: |
Hovind's Ph.D. is fake. It came from a fake university. How does demonstrating this constitute 'changing the subject'?
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In what do you think he has a Ph.d?
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He doesn't have a Ph.D., at least not a real one. He has a FAKE Ph.D. which he bought, and that FAKE Ph.D. is allegedly in the area of Christian education, although his bogus thesis has nothing to do with Christian education, so it's even unclear what area his fake Ph.D. is in.
It certainly isn't in any area of science.
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
The earth is 6000 years old and it is ridiculous to think otherwise!
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There is so much scientific evidence to the contrary that you're just embarrassing yourself and broadcasting your ignorance by saying this.
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
| P1234567890 wrote: |
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
And knowledge is not detriment by the size of a school were you got it?! . . . Duh |
It is if you got it at a diploma mill and your thesis is absolute crap.
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Do you know how many have accused him of this?
But have never been man enough to face him!
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What do you mean, 'accused'? Hovind DID get his 'Ph.D.' from a diploma mill. This is a fact. As for facing him, that might be hard, seeing as how he is currently incarcerated, and even if he weren't, he refuses to engage in formal debates.
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
I can say a lot about How South Africa was good but has become bad, but the point is the smart people emigrated to get away from this conditions. It is called brain drain
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You don't say.
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
| P1234567890 wrote: |
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
You think Jesus was in a Giant University? Daniel?
Knowledge can be gained out of books, and through words. |
That's right, and we all know that there's only one book which matters: The Bible!
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I feel a tear coming down my cheek, you have finally become a christian!
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Actually, I was being sarcastic in order to ridicule your radical fundamentalist viewpoints.
| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
| P1234567890 wrote: |
It seems so very consistent that this thought lives in your head alongside your pro-slavery and anti-women viewpoints. And you're just a kid! The world is looking forward to when you grow up and become a *real* bigot. |
Coming from someone pro-porn?
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I'm not pro-porn; I'm pro-free-speech. But while we're at it, I'll gladly concede that being pro-porn is A LOT more moral than being pro-slavery!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
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So I'm currently watching the first of these videos. They're both well over two hours.
Anyway. Unsurprisingly, Hovind's first tack is the six different kinds of evolution (he's used this in every debate of his that I've watched). He doesn't elaborate on the first (cosmic evolution--origin of matter) yet, but the second is "chemical evolution". He claims that it's "simply not possible" for other elements to arise from hydrogen. This is, of course, a lie. It's called fusion. It's what happens in stars--that's why stars give off all of that light and heat. And stars are considered to be the origin of the heavier elements. But of course, we can't get on a star and watch it happen. Luckily (or unluckily, depending on how you look at it) we have plenty of examples of fusion. All hydrogen (or thermonuclear) bombs, for example, utilize fusion. And here's a whole article on nuclear fusion. It happens. So for Hovind to claim that it's "simply not possible" when there's simply no way no one has informed him of this means that he's lying.
The third form of evolution according to Hovind is "stellar evolution," the origin of stars and planets. It's true, no one has ever seen a star form. But we have observed stars and planets in the various stages of formation. Considering the time scales necessary for this sort of thing to happen it's simply nonsense to claim that we should be able to observe a star form.
The fourth form of evolution according to Hovind is "organic evolution." What he is in fact referring to is better known as "abiogenesis" and has absolutely nothing to do with evolution except for the fact that evolution requires life. Of course, none of Hovind's first four kinds of evolution have anything to do with the theory of evolution, but he hardly seems to care.
Then he talks about how he and Rainbow agreed before the debate to only talk about "once life began, how did it evolve." He says this, of course, immediately after discussing his first four kinds of evolution which had nothing to do with "once life began, how did it evolve." This is clearly dishonest.
Ooh, then he brings up that the dog, wolf and coyote are clearly the same type of animal. What about dingos? Any kid that would class the first three together would likewise class the dingo along with them. But here's the thing: wolves and domestic dogs can breed. Domestic dogs and dingos can breed. But dingos and wolves cannot. Why?
It's at this point that I'm noticing the preferential editing I was expecting after watching the first part. Only a very few of Rainbow's slides could be seen clearly, yet Hovind's slides are seen perfectly. This video, of course, comes branded "drdino.com." Why is it edited so obviously in favor of Hovind?
Then he claims that the entirety of the first five are "purely imagination" when--at the very least--number two, "chemical evolution," should be well-known to anyone that has ever been involved with science. Especially if they've taught science. So either Hovind never really taught high school science (and is lying about it) or he did and is lying about so-called "chemical evolution" occuring. Or, perhaps, both.
I'll maybe respond more as I watch but honestly I'm just laughing at Hovind.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Oh man and he's referred to tax dollars going to teach evolution at least three times now, I love watching when this happens.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Then he talks about how he and Rainbow agreed before the debate to only talk about "once life began, how did it evolve." He says this, of course, immediately after discussing his first four kinds of evolution which had nothing to do with "once life began, how did it evolve." This is clearly dishonest. |
Remember this? I'm watching and he's been going on five minutes or so now about geology.
And man, it must be great to completely avoid talking about a subject by referring to some video that one is conveniently selling. He's done it at least once per minute so far.
He refers to a textbook talking about "fish-like structures" in embryos and then immediately equivocates that they mean gills. Well, no. It's entirely true that all vertebrates have pharyngeal pouches during embryological development. In fish, these develop into gills. In everything else, they disappear. This is 1) not indicative of design, as this is wasteful (which Hovind earlier in the video takes great pains to claim that his God is not) and 2) the textbook doesn't claim that all vertebrates develop gills during embryological development.
Hovind is, by definition, lying.
Ah yes, and another reference to tax dollars. Man, I should have been keeping track of these. He keeps saying it. The irony.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Ah yes, the good old out-of-context Darwin quote on the eye. Completely ignoring that the statement was a rhetorical device which was immediately followed by an explanation of why, even though it seems absurd it is not. A classic creationist quote mine. Why am I not surprised?
Haha, now he's talking about a textbook saying that gills were an evolutionary development, claiming that anything without gills would have just died. Uh, no? I can't think of a single marine invertebrate with gills.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:38 am Post subject: |
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The creative editing really comes into full force at the end, too.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7633
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Wow FFT, you've got more patience than I do for watching his garbage. Nice work.
| FFT wrote: |
Hovind is, by definition, lying.
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In addition to the lies in the videos, I want to re-emphasize that the guy got a fake degree and masquerades as some kind of academic. If this isn't lying, then I don't know what is. What does the Bible say about telling lies?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | PrysdieHeer! wrote: | FFT:
If you really want to debate I`ll debate you too, but stop going of the topic and ignoring my questions.
| Quote: | | Will failure to follow these rules mean an immediate forfeiture? |
Yes |
And who judges when someone didn't follow the rules? You?
Sounds like a Hovind-style debate to me: You're judge and jury, applying your own rules as you see fit.
How about we have a normal one-on-one debate. The only person you need to be worried about here with respect to dishonest debating tactics is yourself. |
Oh sorry if you misunderstood, the reason I made this rules, is for you to feel more comfortable to debate me.
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You me and Nobby can monitor these rules.
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So do you accept?
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Prys die Heer!
_________________
Love is never a problem, it is always the solution!
If God did not exist, you would not Exist.
Im a YEC. Find out more on www.yecheadquarters.org |
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PrysdieHeer!
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 392
Location: South Africa; Gardens of Pretoria
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: |
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FFT:
If you listen to the debate closely, you will hear the evolutionists use the same arguments, and Hovind proves them wrong. He won those debates!
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Prys die Heer!
_________________
Love is never a problem, it is always the solution!
If God did not exist, you would not Exist.
Im a YEC. Find out more on www.yecheadquarters.org |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7633
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: |
So do you accept? |
I'd love to debate you one-on-one, but I have *serious* reservations about you and your rules. If we make 'going off topic' a rule set in stone and give you the power to declare when your opponent is off-topic, then I can imagine that I will write something which is directly on-topic, and you'll declare, "Off topic. I win this debate!"
I have a much more reasonable suggestion: You and I have a one-on-one debate with two moderators presiding over it. The topic will be the age of the Earth.
The moderators will make sure that we stay on topic, AND furthermore they can be the judges. At any point in time we can appeal to them on any given topic and ask which side of the argument has made a stronger *scientific* case.
I nominate Admin and RevJP to be the judges.
If you agree to this in principle (and the moderators agree), then I would love to debate you one-on-one. We can hammer out the exact format of the debate once we have agreed on these broader rules.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6901
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I won't moderate the 'debate'. I neither have the time nor the desire to moderate a debate. No offense to either of you, but I do not find either of your debating styles appealing in so many ways.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| PrysdieHeer! wrote: | FFT:
If you listen to the debate closely, you will hear the evolutionists use the same arguments, and Hovind proves them wrong. He won those debates! |
Seriously? I spend almost three hours watching that debate (I'd already seen the second) responding as I watched it and this is your only response?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Sorry, I won't moderate the 'debate'. I neither have the time nor the desire to moderate a debate. No offense to either of you, but I do not find either of your debating styles appealing in so many ways. |
Then dare I say you wouldn't be biased toward either of them?
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6093
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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One on One!
Here you can have a"One on One"debate without being desturbed! Contact Nobby. to set you up in pairs. E-mail Nobby or use the PM's
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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