Good Thursday

Yehushuan · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Good Thursday

There is a 'quirk' in Judaism, a custom of the Jewish people that is not well known to the Christian world, and if it is known, is just treated as another odd fact to be kept on the shelf in the back of one’s mind.

"God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day." (Gen. 1:5)

In our western culture, it seems obvious that the day begins at daybreak, and continues on through until we sleep. But to the Jew, the next day starts in the middle, at sunset, while we are still awake. “…evening and the morning were the first day.”

Of course today, we start the “day” at midnight (the opposite of noon) because of those pesky clocks and computers. But still, to the Jew, the Sabbath day runs from Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown. While many Christians know the Sabbath is Saturday, they tend to forget that Saturday night is Not the Sabbath.

And this “cultural scotoma” extends to the day of preparation. Since the Jewish people were directed by the Law to do no work on the Sabbath, all cooking (food preparation) must be done on the “day” before - the day of preparation, which would be our “Thursday evening until Friday before sundown.”

So what?

Well, we need to realize that the synoptic gospels are by and large “Jewish” documents, written with a Jewish vocabulary, from a Jewish perspective, at least culturally if not theologically.

Mar 15:37 KJV And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

Mar 15:42-45 KJV And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, (43) Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. (44) And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead. (45) And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.

Mark 15:42 NASB “And when evening had already come, because it WAS the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath,”

So how could Jesus be crucified during the day on Friday, if his body was removed from the cross in the evening of the preparation day which was Thursday night?

Joseph of Arimathaea took the body down after sunset on the day of preparation – Thurdsay, since Friday after sunset is the Sabbath.

So how come all Christian tradition (besides ours) honors the crucifixion on Friday? Because the Gentiles were Roman, not Jewish, and could never quite wrap their heads around the whole “new day starts at sunset” idea.

For over a thousand years, Sabbath = Saturday and Preparation Day = Friday. And it seems rather easy to make the cultural blunder that Jesus’ body was removed from the cross Friday evening (after Sunset). And so the error continues. But make no mistake, Jesus was crucified on Thrusday.

(So what else don't you know?)

© 2004 The Y’shuan Fellowship

Pete · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject:

Hey Yehu, I thought that I was the only one that figured that out. You are going to make me dig in my files for my notes and charts. Well, I guess it's that time of year.

Usually there are the Wednesday and Friday crucifixion proponents - not many go for a Thursday crucifixion. Jesus was crucified at exactly the same time as the sacrifices were going on in the temple. He is the final Passover sacrifice. When he said it was done - it was done. Easter Sunday has nothing to do with it.

Not only did Jews start their days as sunset, they counted days differently. Jesus rose from the dead before sunset Saturday, using the Jewish inclusive system of counting days.

trettep · Lion Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 910

Yehushuan · Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

Part of the problem is that the author of John didn’t really know too much about Jewish customs and seems to have made the same mistake with regards to the day.

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:28 am Post subject:

There is a rumor that any part of a day is counted as a day making it OK for the sign of Jonah to be fulfilled with less than 72 hours, even though in the book of Jonah he spent three days AND three nights in the belly of the fish.

The single prophetic sign that Jesus Himself allowed was this sign of Jonah.

Let's see Thursday at sundown to Sunday morning sunrise is less that 72 hours so Jesus must have been wrong or maybe He didn't really understand this sign of Jonah. According to this scenario the resurrection must have been after sundown on Sunday.

Yehu another part of this scenario that is confusing is the multiple Sabbaths during this time of the year, every Holy day is a Sabbath. Since Passover might be any day of the week including the normal Sabbath day, there would be two maybe three Sabbaths that week depending on which day of the week Passover was.

The holidays include the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" (a week long feast), "Passover", and "First Fruits" which will always be the first "first day of the week after Passover" and also a regular sabbath.

Passover is always the 14th of Nisan, whichever day of the week it is.

The Feast of unleavened Bread started the evening of Passover and went for 7 days.

Pete · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:19 am Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject:

Pete, when the story of Jonah specifies three days and three nights does it actually means three whole days. (If you care to read Jonah it does in fact mention three days and three nights). Since Jesus specifically referred to the Jonah prophecy was he meaning "inclusive days(parts of three days) " or the "three days and three nights" of the prophecy? The difference might be as much as nearly 48 hours altogether.

The issue is not inconsequential since it bears upon the fulfillment of the feast days. Or are we willing to go into the not taking the Bible literally rant?

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:21 am Post subject:

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:27 am Post subject:

45degreeN · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:25 am Post subject:

Armstrong by the way recanted of much of his extreme dogmas concerning following the law, and this revised Armstrong is someone I can relate to. I am a student of Dr. Gene Scott btw I studied under his ministry for twenty years.

Most of my positions come to you out of his preaching. His PhD came from Stanford not some Bible college. He could translate into and out of 16 languages including Hebrew, Greek and Arabic. I've seen Dr. Scott in one of his sermons have five separate languages on the board and showing how each one with their slightly different meanings can be understood and why they were the way they were. Translating and writing the scripture in them in front of a live audience.

The scripture in question about the book of Jonah and the use of 'three days and three nights' instead of just writing 'three days' is the catch for me. It is a peculiar phrasing, rather than the much more common mentioning of 'three days.' One can only assume that the author wanted to include a period of 72 hour not just parts of three days. Why else would you think this phrase was used?

When you add the emphasis of Jesus referring to this particular prophecy and pointing again to the 'three days and three nights.' Remember that this was the ONLY sign Jesus was willing to give to the religious leaders. So it needed to be a clear and un-ambiguous sign not allowing any confusion. Something that they could see and know and have no doubts. (That is if they were willing to look at it at all.) This is why I prefer to think it is the more precise meaning of exactly 72 hours and no of course there were no stop watches around.

pato · Kitten Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 130

Yeshushuan wrote:

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Pasover

45degreeN · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:46 am Post subject:

Pato don't you actually mean five Sabbaths within 1 seven day period

1st day of unleavened bread- Can be any day of the week
Passover- Next day after the above day and can be any day of the week (always on 14th of Nissan)
Regular Sabbath-Always starts on a Friday evening
First fruits- Next 'first day of the week'
7th day of unleavened bread

No wonder they were called the High holy days.

Just wait until we discuss Sukkot that is another intense period of activity.

pato · Kitten Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 130

Yeshushuan wrote:

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: