I was told Jesus did not die on a Cross, is that true?

Arthur

Some may see nothing wrong with wearing a cross. ‘It’s just an ornament,’ they may say. Bear in mind, though, how the cross has been used down through history—as an object of pagan worship and of superstitious awe.

Could wearing a cross, even as just an ornament, be harmonized with the admonition of the apostle Paul at 1 Corinthians 10:14: “Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry”?

What about true Christians today? They, too, should be conscious of the need to ‘guard themselves from idols,’ as the Bible counsels. (1 John 5:21)

Is the cross an appropriate ornament? Recall Paul’s statement: “Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake,” and therefore would not a Christian prefer to think of Christ as a glorious enthroned King!—Galatians 3:13; Revelation 6:2.

If if I do not wear a cross of course I deeply appreciate the fact that Christ died for me. I agree with all who posted here the point that Christ’s sacrifice is a marvelous demonstration of “God’s power” and eternal love. (1 Corinthians 1:18; John 3:16) But I do not need any material object like a cross to help me worship this God of love. For, as Paul exhorted, they “are walking by faith, not by sight.”—2 Corinthians 5:7.

You may assume that Christians were the first to use the cross. The Encyclopedia Americana, however, speaks of “its ancient usage by both Hindus and Buddhists in India and China, and by the Persians, Assyrians, and Babylonians.” Similarly, Chambers’s Encyclopaedia, (1969 edition) says that the cross “was an emblem to which religious and mystical meanings were attached long before the Christian era.”

Indeed, there is no evidence that early Christians used the cross in their worship. During the early days of Christianity, it was the pagan Romans who used the cross! Says The Companion Bible: “These crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian sun-god . . . and are first seen on a coin of Julius Caesar, 100-44 B.C., and then on a coin struck by Caesar’s heir (Augustus), 20 B.C.” The Roman nature-god Bacchus was at times represented with a headband containing a number of crosses.

The Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics says: “With the 4th cent[ury] magical belief began to take a firmer hold within the Church.” As with a magic charm, simply making the sign of the cross was thought to be “the surest defence against demons, and the remedy for all diseases.” Superstitious use of the cross continues to this day.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1979) states under the heading “Cross”: “Originally Gk. staurós designated a pointed, vertical wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. . . . They were positioned side by side in rows to form fencing or defensive palisades around settlements, or singly they were set up as instruments of torture on which serious offenders of law were publicly suspended to die (or, if already killed, to have their corpses thoroughly dishonored).”

True, the Romans did use an instrument of execution known in Latin as the crux. And in translating the Bible into Latin, this word crux was used as a rendering of stau•ros´. Because the Latin word crux and the English word cross are similar, many mistakenly assume that a crux was necessarily a stake with a crossbeam.

However, The Imperial Bible-Dictionary says: “Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part.”

I thank everyone for their postings and I respect all that you are saying, however I must say that your "research" both Biblically and Historically only convince me more that Jesus died on a stake and we as real Christians should not be displaying a pagan sex symbol cross as this offends God and Jesus.

Your friend in the Truth
Arthur

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject:

Whatever.

Dead logic and foolish reasoning...

HeKkLeR · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject:

Yehushuan

HeKkLeR · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject:

Good link, Yehu. Wink

Oddly enough, between 83 - 80 BCE, there are three coins shown that appear to be promoting a stake. Shocked

And definitely no cross on the coins. Not even one. Laughing

HeKkLeR · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject:

Hmmm...

I've looked at many many coins now from Julius and Augustus. And guess what? Still not one coin depicting a cross of any sort. Several depicting spears and collumns, but not one with a cross.

Arthur, did you make that story up, or was it the cult leader? The cult scribes got you duped?

HeKkLeR · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject:

Dust · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject:

Arthur,

You know what I think.......I think you want nothing to do with the cross, because the very symbol of the cross has power in what it represents. Furthermore, it seems that deceiving spirits would be limited by the power of what the cross represents, and therefore would not want it in the houses of worship which they've established.

Lets not forget the power of the Ark when it was placed in the temple of Dagon.

Arthur, if you yourself are not deceiving purposefully, then recognize that you have put yourself in a postion to be deceived. You've distanced yourself from the power of Christ, not even allowing the symbol of that power within your temple.

HeKkLeR · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:

Good post, Dust.

I would like to know from Arthur what he believes Moses was representing in these passages:

Exodus 15:8-15

As long as Moses held up his hands, the Israelites were winning, but whenever he lowered his hands, the Amalekites were winning. When Moses' hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held his hands up—one on one side, one on the other—so that his hands remained steady till sunset. So Joshua overcame the Amalekite army with the sword.

For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD.

Do you think, Arthur, that Moses was representing the cross, or the stake?

Arthur

To all the Hekklars and Yehus and critics

They say that observers can determine who is losing the best of a debate when the loser resorts to "name calling" and "anger".

You see it's not just the Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that Jesus did not die on a cross but instead on a tree or stake. I would encourage you to view this web page "The Two Babylons - The Sign of the Cross - Alexander Hislop"
http://www.piney.com/His56.html

In that page it quotes a reputable reference work "W. E. Vine who says on this subject: "STAUROS (staur¬V) denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross." Greek scholar Vine then mentions the Chaldean origin of the two-piece cross and
how it was adopted from the pagans by Christendom in the third century C.E. as a symbol of Christ's impalement." Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1981, Vol. 1, p. 256.

As most of you posting here belong to CHRISTENDOM it is only natural you are upset and trying to defend a false doctrine. But let the facts speak for themselves.

Not the WatchTower but the New Catholic (part of Christendom) Encyclopedia noted that the early Christians did not think to have a crucifix or a cross hanging on their doors or in their places of meeting. New Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The representation of Christ's redemptive death on Golgotha does not occur in the symbolic art of the first Christian centuries. The early Christians, influenced by the Old Testament prohibition of graven images, were reluctant to depict even the instrument of the Lord's Passion." (1967), Vol. IV, p. 486 Resource (Please in case you didn't notice this reference is not from the 1800's.....)

The cross thus widely worshipped, or regarded as a sacred emblem, was the unequivocal symbol of Bacchus, the Babylonian Messiah, for he was represented with a head-band covered with crosses.

As for the coins, I laud your noble efforts to support your ideas and I respect you for that. There are no doubt thousands of unearthed coins. I have not personally done "coin" research but with the references I have quoted they have done that research.

A coin with "Cristos" written on it after Jesus left the earth is of no surprise....how many churches of Christendom today have clothing, ornaments, pictures, good luck charms, etc with Jesus and the cross......that was done by those who departed from the true teachings...!!

Coins or no coins, the whole history of mankind shows that the cross existed long before Jesus came and it has a very distasteful origin. I have quoted many reputable encyclopedias and historians......if you don't want to see the truth....you never will...

I am sure that many sincere people reading this thread will see the facts and benefit as they worship God without any pagan symbols and fully accept the beautiful ransom sacrifice of our Lord without tainting it with pagan overtones

Your friend in the Truth
Arthur

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Zathrus · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:23 am Post subject:

HeKkLeR · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:16 am Post subject:

Niall · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:01 am Post subject:

The Greek word that was tranlated to cross is stavros. Actually there is no conclusion to what the word actually represented. It could be a T, a traditional cross, a pole, a pole used for impalement, and other means of torture. These were all defined as stavros.

Stavros was a first century generic term.

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:

Yehushuan