I was told Jesus did not die on a Cross, is that true?

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6842 Location: USA

Another Amen to eleven....

ragman13 · Labrador Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 320

But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, (Titus 3:9-10 ESV)

Zathrus · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:48 am Post subject:

So what it really comes down to is this is just another anti-Catholic/paganized Christianity thread?

ragman, amen! Paul put it best.

Pete · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject:

What kind of cross?

There are a variety of crosses that I’ve heard were used in the time of Jesus. The traditional “+” cross, the “T” cross, the “I” stake, and even being nailed to a tree. It seems that the upright stake would tend to have been used a lot for simple convenience.

One story has it that the upright stake with a small platform or stub for the victim to stand on was the most excruciating. The idea being that with both arms being nailed together overhead; it was very difficult to breath, especially when the victim began to sag when his legs gave out while trying to stand. In most cases the victim had already been beaten half to death before being affixed to a stake.

This may have been why the two criminals, who were still alive, had their legs broken so they could no longer support themselves, and thus suffocated. It all sounds interesting, but is still not proof of the type that was used to crucify Jesus.

Arthur

Does it really make any difference if a person cherishes a cross, as long as he does not worship it?

Well the question I would like to ask on that is. How would you feel if one of your dearest friends was executed on the basis of false charges?

Would you make a replica of the instrument of execution? Would you cherish it, wear a miniature gun or knife around your neck on a chain, or would you rather shun it?

If we look back into ancient Israel, unfaithful Jews wept over the death of the false god Tammuz. The Lord spoke of what they were doing as being a ‘detestable thing.’ (Ezek. 8:13, 14)

According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol. From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against God and an enemy of true worship. (Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29)

So let’s take a fresh look at this. I know that what I am about to say may upset many here on the forum but actually when you think of it from God’s point of view by cherishing the cross, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to the true God !!!

As stated at Ezekiel 8:17, apostate Jews also ‘thrust out the shoot to the Lord’s nose.’ He viewed this as “detestable” and ‘offensive.’ Why? This “shoot,” some commentators explain, was a representation of the male sex organ, used in phallic worship.

How, then, must God view the use of the cross, which, as we have seen, was anciently used as a symbol in phallic worship?

Serious information that all lovers of TRUTH will indeed meditate on and not dismiss lightly

Your friend in the Truth
Arthur

HeKkLeR · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:35 am Post subject:

Zathrus

Dust · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject:

'The Octavius of Minucius Felix' is an early Christian writing recorded somewhere between 160-250 C.E. The writing records a debate between Octavious the Christian, and Caecilius the Pagan, in which the Cross is referred to by both men with no disputation about it's authenticity, nor is there any mention of a "torture stake".

Here I quote one such reference.......

Yehushuan

Yehushuan · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject:

Plotinus · Tiger Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 843 Location: Canada

I thought I might jump into this thread. Excuse the interruption. Wink

I've been greatly enjoying the arguments and have learned lots of interesting stuff.

My personal take on the crucifixion is that it doesn't really matter what the specific form the execution of Jesus took. Obviously crucifixion took a variety of forms in those days, and I am comfortable with a reasonable amount of uncertainty as to which form was used for Jesus. The cross is a symbol of the path that Jesus took. Its physical expression is of little importance to me.

The fact that Jesus was crucified and not beheaded or burned is important, however. Crucifixion was the form of execution for the "lowest" of criminals: disobedient slaves like Spartacus, and criminals from the lowest order of society. So the path that Jesus took to the cross is important because it leads to the very people who are mentioned in the beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount more broadly: the poor and the despised--and yes, even if those people have committed terrible offenses. There is love for them also.

Zathrus · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:27 am Post subject:

HeKkLeR · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject:

Yehushuan · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject:

Zathrus, I'm so sorry. My sarcasm wasn't directed at you, but the 1800's "scholars" (and those who rely upon them).

Embarassed

Yehu

eleven · Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:

Jesus came into this world as the lowest form- a baby.
And He left in the lowest form - the crucifixion. The specifics of it don't matter.

The only "honor" that I give to the cross around my neck is the fact that other people recognize it. I don't worship it, and honestly, I don't even have to wear it. I know what I believe. But I wear it because thru it, I have the chance to evangelize to others. Working in the medical field, I have had children reach out and hold this cross as it dangles from my neck while I bend towards them to attend to their needs.

When adults see it, they feel safe in talking to me about Jesus and healing. So yeah, in a way, I do honor this cross. It still holds power in a positive way, which only proves once again that God ALWAYS turns evil into good.