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Captain Vegetable
Kitten
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 137
Location: None....wait, Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:29 pm Post subject: The Apocrypha and it's removal from Protestant Bibles. |
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Anyone know why the Apocrypha was removed from Protestant Bibles?
Careful...this might be a trap.  |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 4910
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:45 pm Post subject: Trap me! |
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No Cap't  I'm a Protestant Why  |
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Captain Vegetable
Kitten
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 137
Location: None....wait, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, most Protestants will tell you that it's because they were "stories" without merit and that's why, but the true reason is a paper shortage. They were excluded due to paper shortages and never, rightly, put back in. They should, in fact, be there. |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Vegetable wrote: | | Well, most Protestants will tell you that it's because they were "stories" without merit and that's why, but the true reason is a paper shortage. They were excluded due to paper shortages and never, rightly, put back in. They should, in fact, be there. |
Some research done on the matter. Seems to me that Martin Luther [The guy who supposedly nailed his ninteyfive theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, what is now Germany] were in agreeance with the thougts of Jerome [who lived in the fourth century A.D.] in regard to the Apocrypha. Both seem to have considered the Apocrypha being good material for liturgical resources, but not as a source of doctrine.
One of the main reasons many Christians today reject the Apocrypha seems to me more being based in that those books were never accepted/written in Hebrew, as all other books of the old testament before being translated to Greek.
In regard to the paper shortage, this might be true for the KJV bible, but then again, bibles printed before KJV's bible in other countries, that had already became Protestant excluded the books as canonized.
Keep in mind when it comes to King James, he was brought up with the Catholic church, and he only modified it slightly, as opposed to those who converted into Protestantism.
Fake |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1641
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:00 am Post subject: |
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That would be good info for www.Lutheran-Talk.com
I hope you don't mind if I copy it over there.
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | That would be good info for www.Lutheran-Talk.com
I hope you don't mind if I copy it over there.
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As far as my post goes, I don't mind. After all, what I write is for debate on issues.
Fake |
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Ryck
Tiger Cub
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 798
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Fake wrote: |
Some research done on the matter. Seems to me that Martin Luther [The guy who supposedly nailed his ninteyfive theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, what is now Germany] were in agreeance with the thougts of Jerome [who lived in the fourth century A.D.] in regard to the Apocrypha. Both seem to have considered the Apocrypha being good material for liturgical resources, but not as a source of doctrine.
One of the main reasons many Christians today reject the Apocrypha seems to me more being based in that those books were never accepted/written in Hebrew, as all other books of the old testament before being translated to Greek.
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Really? You learn something every day. When I get some time I'll look into the reasons surrounding Apocrypha. This looks like an interesting subject.
Peace |
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Captain Vegetable
Kitten
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 137
Location: None....wait, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:04 am Post subject: |
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That was an excellent and informative post, Fake. Thanks!  |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 4910
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:21 am Post subject: Thanks |
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Fake,
Thank you for your post! It told me some things I didn't know before. But Hey! That's what I like about this board!
Now then, some of you guys that wanted the Apocrypha books,
do some posting & prove me wrong! |
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Captain Vegetable
Kitten
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 137
Location: None....wait, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Prove you wrong about what? Thier cannonical credibility? |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 4910
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:50 pm Post subject: Sorry Capt. |
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Sorry Capt.,
Didn't come out the way I intended.
I was wondering if anyone would post in them since not many can lay hands on the books without going and buying them.
A very small percentage of our members post in the regular books.
But when you figure over 500 members a very small percentage posts at all. Over 50% have never posted!
I got a kink in my typing fingers, and it all came out wrong! |
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Captain Vegetable
Kitten
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 137
Location: None....wait, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Fake wrote: | | One of the main reasons many Christians today reject the Apocrypha seems to me more being based in that those books were never accepted/written in Hebrew, as all other books of the old testament before being translated to Greek. |
I find this point moot. Jesus always quoted from the Septuagint, which contains the entire Apocrypha. He could have quoted some other text, like the Hebrew, but always quoted the Septuagint.
Even if modern Protestants do not view it as cannonical, under what authority do they discern so? Martin Luther's? He clearly revered the Apocryphal teachings.
King James? His Bible contained the Apocrypha until 1700, wherein the paper shortages were responcible for their removal.
The Orthodox Church believes the entire Apocrypha the be cannon worhty, and the Catholic church believes at least half to be. Both of these churches have ties into the Apostles themselves. Roman Catholicism can trace the Papacy back to Peter, and the Orthodox to Andrew. Both the Eastern (Orthodox) and Western (Catholic) churches, before the great schism while they were all a single church, bound the books of the Bible as cannon. Who is it that flys in the face of this authority by removing these books from Protestant Bibles?
There is no good reason for them to have been removed, and for them to continue to be. Protestants dislike the Catholic tradition and do all manner of things to show flippant dismissal of them. Removing the Apocrypha is a way of showing this, but at what cost? Incomplete Bibles. We are told to obey the word of God, but how are we to do it entirely with entirely incomplete scriptures? |
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Captain Vegetable
Kitten
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 137
Location: None....wait, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry Capt. |
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| Nobby wrote: | Sorry Capt.,
Didn't come out the way I intended.
I was wondering if anyone would post in them since not many can lay hands on the books without going and buying them.
A very small percentage of our members post in the regular books.
But when you figure over 500 members a very small percentage posts at all. Over 50% have never posted!
I got a kink in my typing fingers, and it all came out wrong! |
Oh! Gotcha, gotcha. |
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Captain Vegetable
Kitten
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 137
Location: None....wait, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Fake wrote: | | In regard to the paper shortage, this might be true for the KJV bible, but then again, bibles printed before KJV's bible in other countries, that had already became Protestant excluded the books as canonized. |
They were still there, but excluded as cannon, either inserted between the NT and OT, or at the end of Revelation.
They were, however, still there. Just denied the respect of the "Divinely Inspired" books. |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Vegetable wrote: | | Fake wrote: | | In regard to the paper shortage, this might be true for the KJV bible, but then again, bibles printed before KJV's bible in other countries, that had already became Protestant excluded the books as canonized. |
They were still there, but excluded as cannon, either inserted between the NT and OT, or at the end of Revelation.
They were, however, still there. Just denied the respect of the "Divinely Inspired" books. |
I can only speak of the Swedish Bible
They're still there, as an addition to the texts that are considered "divine". The Swedish Bible do have the Apocrypha [11 books in the Swedish version] in them, but they're not canonized, as decreed by the synod of Jabne somewhere around 90 A.D.
It is my understanding that the Protestant churches follow the Jewish tradition closer than do the Catholic or [Eastern] Orthodox Churches.
Another intresting thing I have found while doing research on this matter is...
Before about 1550 A.D. they didn't have verses in the Bible as they do now. I think that if we didn't have that system, we'd actually understand the bible better. Now we look at one verse at a time, and read into it things that the chapter itself do not support. Hrmmmm, food for thought there
Best Regards,
Fake |
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