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Diane
Cobra
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 470
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 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Maverick wrote:
| Quote: | | So, it would be safe to say when He says Hate, it means to "Love Last" opposed to the what the word means in todays society (Not to love at all but to be repulsed, offended, extreme hostility,etc). My little math problem above (lol ) seems somewhat harsh, but makes sense to me if put in perspective. |
Hi Maverick!
I don't understand your equation fully.....but that's my fault....not good with equations. lol
But.....I was thinking about the last shall be first as I read your statement above.
Seeing God's provision for the "least/last of these".....loving all the bits and fragments gathered.....losing none.
Well I'm just brain storming here. lol I get blessed by the littlest things.....and your post was a blessing.
Love, Di |
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Plotinus
Tiger
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 840
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: Re: I don't understand (Luke 14:25-26) |
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| Maverick1337 wrote: | Luke 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
I can't make sense of this. I read someone saying that this is why Christians are monsters. I must not be reading this right or something because its looking like Jesus is telling people to hate others which I know is 100% false. Someone please make sense of this for me. 
I know that Jesus isn't telling us to hate someone and I want to post otherwise but can't seem to figure this one out. Thanks !! |
Hi Maverick1337. I cannot add anything much to the excellent comments that have been made. I just want to add a few personal observations. The passage is usually cross-referenced to Matthew 10:37.
| Matthew wrote: | He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
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I find it useful to look at cross-references between the synoptic gospels in a number of cases, this being one. In reply to people who object to such passages one can only say that the original intended audience probably understood them in a clearer context than we do today, and that it is helpful to avoid taking passages too literally and out of context. This leaves us exposed to the charge of interpreting the Bible to suit ourselves. But in this case Matthew can be brought in to defend a less literal interpretation of the word "hate". |
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Plotinus
Tiger
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 840
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Maverick1337 wrote: | In my spare time at work, I thought this through, and the conclusion I came up with was similar to this (in my own mind at least  )
Love------------------->Hate
God-------------------->Others
= =
First Love------------->Last Love (But Love nonetheless)
So, it would be safe to say when He says Hate, it means to "Love Last" opposed to the what the word means in todays society (Not to love at all but to be repulsed, offended, extreme hostility,etc). My little math problem above (lol ) seems somewhat harsh, but makes sense to me if put in perspective.
Thank you Yehushuan and Atoz for your long and extensive responses! This is the kind of thing I was hoping for when I logged in today. Also if you have a second, give my little theory a critique
~~God Bless!~~ |
Excellent. |
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Plotinus
Tiger
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 840
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Wilber, I've got to get me one of those shirts! |
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Maverick1337
Goldfish
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: I don't understand (Luke 14:25-26) |
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| Quote: |
I find it useful to look at cross-references between the synoptic gospels in a number of cases, this being one. In reply to people who object to such passages one can only say that the original intended audience probably understood them in a clearer context than we do today, and that it is helpful to avoid taking passages too literally and out of context. This leaves us exposed to the charge of interpreting the Bible to suit ourselves. But in this case Matthew can be brought in to defend a less literal interpretation of the word "hate". |
This reminds me of something I heard on the radio about whether to take the Bible literal or as a metaphor. The guy said to take everything "Naturally". Meaning that you have to use discretion because some things ARE metaphors or symbolic and some things are to be taken literally. With that being said doesn't Revelations make you want to pull your hair out?
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of
naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is
able to save your souls.
This is my little reminder when I run into something that I don't understand. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: Re: I don't understand (Luke 14:25-26) |
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| Maverick1337 wrote: |
......
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of
naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is
able to save your souls.
This is my little reminder when I run into something that I don't understand. |
And M1337,
What specifically is the engrafted word?smile
With the en-couraging and en-lightening and en-salting and en-suring and en-strengthening & en-hancing & en-chanting word that God is, smile
atoz |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1132
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Very good question you posed, Mav;
If you read the verses around the ones you are asking about it becomes more clear.
Starting in verse 16, Jesus speaks of a great feast. Many are invited but one by one, they all give excuses why they cannot come. One says he needs to go look at a piece of property he purchased. Another has to attend to oxen he purchased. Another said he married a wife and so cannot attend.
What each are doing is putting their family and material possessions above the feast offered by the Lord and Master who extended the invitation.
Jesus is admonishing us to put first the kingdom and glory of God even above our friends, family, material possessions.
Reading further past the verses you quoted:
Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
He's telling us that we have to be strong, we know what's expected, we know the cost and we cannot let anyone or anything get in the way of or come before Him.
Luv |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5046
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Maverick You know I'm not sure if I ever "Welcomed" you to our group! But I will now "Welcome to our group," we are very glad to have you with us! 
Luv have you seen the new smillies in my signature?
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1132
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | Hi Maverick You know I'm not sure if I ever "Welcomed" you to our group! But I will now "Welcome to our group," we are very glad to have you with us!
Luv have you seen the new smillies in my signature?
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Those are cool! Where did you get them, Nobby?
Luv |
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Pete
Tiger
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 812
Location: Arlington Hts., Il. USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Luke 14:26 can easily be taken out of context when translating the Greek "miseo" as "hate." it should be understood in this context to mean "love less" as is indicated in Matthew 10:37.
In short, if you want to be a disciple of Christ, and a true Christian, your top priority has to be Jesus Christ. If it is secondary to something else in your life, then you are not a worthy disciple.
We aren't asked to despise others, we are simply told to get our priorities in order. It calls for a little serious and honest introspection. |
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eleven
Lion King
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1396
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: I don't understand (Luke 14:25-26) |
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| Quote: | Maverick1337
Luke 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father,
and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
I can't make sense of this. I read someone saying that this is why Christians are monsters. I must not be reading this right or something because its looking like Jesus is telling people to hate others which I know is 100% false. Someone please make sense of this for me.
I know that Jesus isn't telling us to hate someone and I want to post otherwise but can't seem to figure this one out. Thanks !! |
Hi Maverick1337.
I always took this scripture to mean if you are not willing to give up the people, places or things that are the most precious to you, even your own life, then you don't have the what it takes to follow Jesus. He most certainly is not asking you to hate people themselves for any reason.
Hope that helps. |
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