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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: THE WORKS OF THE NEW COVENANT LAW |
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By "THE WORKS OF THE NEW COVENANT LAW" I mean the things that our Lord Jesus commanded us to do. For example:
You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you; That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love them who love you, what reward have you? do not even the tax collectors the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you more than others? do not even the tax collectors so? Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect.Matthew 5:43-48
Another example is:
Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12
Now JimD  , I recall you saying in a previous post:
| JimD wrote: | | ...if sprinkled by the blood of Jesus (belief) and cleansed from dead works (trying to save ourselves by keeping the law) |
I agree with this 100%! BUT what I had never considered until recently was that this not only referred to the OC Law but the NC commandments of Jesus as well. Don't get me wrong, I have known for a long time that I could not keep Jesus commandments in my own strength because I had already tried very hard to and let's just say it didn't end well!  What I have only just realized is that any attempts by the flesh to keep the commandments of Jesus are DEAD WORKS. Because this is just the Old Man trying to be Holy which is impossible. (I might need to explain this a little better which I will do as we go along.)
Was this something you had in mind at the time of writing this:
| JimD wrote: | | (trying to save ourselves by keeping the law) |
Or were you just referring to the Old Covenant Law?
If you were already aware that this applied to the New Covenant Laws of Jesus as well then that's great. We'd make a good team in presenting this study to others who might not have realized this yet.
I'll wait for your reply before I continue just in case we are on different footing with this.
Kind Regards
Bitterlily |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: Re: THE WORKS OF THE NEW COVENANT LAW |
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| Quote: | bitterlily said:
Was this something you had in mind at the time of writing this:
| JimD wrote: | | (trying to save ourselves by keeping the law) |
Or were you just referring to the Old Covenant Law?
If you were already aware that this applied to the New Covenant Laws of Jesus as well then that's great. We'd make a good team in presenting this study to others who might not have realized this yet.
I'll wait for your reply before I continue just in case we are on different footing with this. |
Wow!, i had not really thought of this but it was right in my face! I think you are 100% right. The basic principles of God are the same from beginning to end. Thank You, JimD |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Re: THE WORKS OF THE NEW COVENANT LAW |
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bitterlily,
Do,nt miss my last post in the old thread. JimD |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: THE WORKS OF THE NEW COVENANT LAW |
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Dear JimD,
| Quote: | | Wow!, i had not really thought of this but it was right in my face! I think you are 100% right. The basic principles of God are the same from beginning to end. Thank You, JimD |
Thanks for your honesty. I look forward to hearing all your thoughts and inspirations on this subject.
With Love
Bitterlily |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: Re: THE WORKS OF THE NEW COVENANT LAW |
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| Quote: | | bitterlily said:Thanks for sharing your take on this verse. I didn't think it was possible that 2 people could hear the same thing so differently. I will examine it closely and get back to you. |
Thank you for your kind words and feelings, they are mutual.
In regard to 1 Peter 3:18-20, i thought i should explain myself a little more, not that you need to see it my way but i would like for you to understand why i see it the way i do.
First of all i hope you are not a KJ only person, i find it very helpful to compare different versions.
Also I would like to know what commentaries you like to use, do you have access to John Calvin, Albert Barns and those guys?
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
Jesus was put to death in the flesh but he was still alive in the spirit. Nothing difficult to understand here.
19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
In the spirit also (in this same way, spiritually) he went and made proclamation to the spirits now (when Peter was writing this) in prison.
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
(NAS95)
(who were these spirits?) the ones who once were disobedient, (when did this take place?) when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark.
Jesus in the spirit preached through Noah to those who were about to perish in the flood but they are today (now) in hell, because they did not believe.
When a person proclaims Christ, it is Christ who is proclaiming himself through that person.
Interpreting this in a way that gives people one more chance after they die seems contrary to the rest of scripture. But of course this is just my opinion.
Ro 4:3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Abraham was righteous because he believed God, Not because he necessarily understood everything. Praise God! we all have a chance! JimD |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I thought I would jump in on this subject as I see a problem that many encounter as I did previously myself.
We know the scriptures say that the believers are not "under the law" but yet Paul says that by Faith we establish the Law and that the Law was ordained unto Life and Holy.
So as you can many would be confused. Especially, when they further see that Hebrews says that the laws contained in ordinances was abolished and yet Jesus said to not believe that He came to abolish the law. So what error do many people make? They proclaim that Jesus abolished the law.
But yet the law is not abolished. So how do we explain the confusion. Pay attention to the following as I hope the Light bulb goes on in your mind.
Consider the speed limit law. The development of that law might have sprang from the intent which is to "reduce injury and death on the highways". Ok, remember that. It is the intent of the speed limit law. But to implement the understanding and adherence to that law one creates the "letter" of that law. We can describe that "letter" of the law as "Obey established speed limits".
Ok, so now we have the Intent of the Speed limit law is to "reduce injury and death on the highways" while the letter to achieve the understanding and compliance with the intent is to "Obey established speed limits".
So now what happens when someone is driving in their car and they find a tire has fallen off the back of a truck and is rolling towards them such that if they don't speed up to avoid getting hit by the tire approach them from the side they are going to risk death or injury if not to themselves to those around them. So they speed up to avoid the tire and break the "letter" of the law because they didn't obey the established speed limits.
Now consider what you this driver has done. They have accomplished the intent of the Speed limit law because the very reason they sped up and avoided the rolling tire was to reduce injury or death but they violated the letter of the law because they broke that law by going faster than the established speed limit.
Now when the LETTER supercedes the INENT of it - then what appears to be just is injustice. But was the letter bad? - no. It was established to understand the Intent. Now if someone is prosecuted for breaking the letter of this speed limit then they have commited injustice by the very thing that was established to promote justice.
This is how you need to look at the Pharisees and their use of the law and why one who is by Faith (understanding and complying with the intent) is establishing the law.
Hope that helps...
Your servant in Christ,
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | [quote="trettep"]I thought I would jump in on this subject as I see a problem that many encounter as I did previously myself.
We know the scriptures say that the believers are not "under the law" but yet Paul says that by Faith we establish the Law and that the Law was ordained unto Life and Holy.
So as you can many would be confused. Especially, when they further see that Hebrews says that the laws contained in ordinances was abolished and yet Jesus said to not believe that He came to abolish the law. So what error do many people make? They proclaim that Jesus abolished the law.
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Yes, the law is perfect, we are not. But by faith in Jesus we are made perfect, we establish the law by faith in him. Jesus abolished the law for us by living it himself and then dying for us so we are not condemned by it, because we cannot keep it. JimD |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| JimD wrote: | | Yes, the law is perfect, we are not. But by faith in Jesus we are made perfect, we establish the law by faith in him. Jesus abolished the law for us by living it himself and then dying for us so we are not condemned by it, because we cannot keep it. JimD |
Yes we are not perfect JimD but anyone that has the Christ therefore has the ability to perform what is perfect. Consider that man doesn't have the ability to perform miracles either yet our Apostles performed them - not of themselves but of Him (The Christ) within them.
I have a saying that I use often and that is that we are saved BY Christ not BECAUSE of Him.
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: THE WORKS OF THE NEW COVENANT LAW |
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| Quote: | bitterlily said:
Thanks for your honesty. I look forward to hearing all your thoughts and inspirations on this subject. |
It shines a brighter light on all of Gods word and helps me to see more clearly. Hopefully i will be better able to answer others as in the post above to trettep. |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for joining us. You've helped me to see what I need to clarify.
| trettep wrote: | | Especially, when they further see that Hebrews says that the laws contained in ordinances was abolished and yet Jesus said to not believe that He came to abolish the law. So what error do many people make? They proclaim that Jesus abolished the law. |
I am not proclaiming that Jesus abolished the Law. What I am proclaiming is:
For I was alive apart from the (NC) law once: but when the (NC) commandment (of Jesus) came, sin revived, and I died. And the (NC) commandment (of Jesus), which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the (NC) commandment (of Jesus), deceived me, and by it slew me. Therefore the law is holy, and the (NC) commandment (of Jesus) holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the (NC) commandment (of Jesus) might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Romans 7:9-14
I hope I haven't confused the matter more with these verses. Like all others I have heard these verses in Romans referring to the OC Law only. It wasn't until recently that I considered the possibility that the same principle applies to the NC Law aswell. Please give me a chance to present this fully before you give up on me and move on. I will try to explain how I see it in my own words.
When Jesus first came into my life I desired to serve Him with everything that was in me. I read the gospels and was greatly convicted by all His commandments so I immediately set out to keep them. Contacting all my enemies asking for their forgiveness and also extending my forgiveness to them. A few months past and things were looking really good. I felt love for all men and I was doing great! My Old Man could see the goal of Holiness and perfection approaching and he was chuffed.  So I continued reading through the NC Scriptures, examining myself in the light of every little commandment and eventually came across this one:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is  ; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching. Hebrews 10:25
My mum had stopped attending a church 5 years previous and I had never joined one since coming to the Lord. I had witnessed my mum suffer many horrible experiences in different churches so we felt quite afraid about knowing where to go. So we said a prayer together telling the Lord that we wanted to obey his commandment but we didn't have the courage or discernment to know where to go so could he put us in touch with some people that we could have fellowship with. A few weeks later JW's and Mormons turned up on our door within a day or two of each other. My mum knew this was not the kind of friends we were hoping for but I didn't. I figured that we had asked and He sent and I was not going to judge what He sent us but would receive them with an open and thankful heart.
To cut a long story short, they put a stumbling block in my way and shut the Kingdom of Heaven before me. By the time our meetings finished everything that I had in the Lord before they came (e.g. the peace, love and joy in the Holy Spirit) was gone! And all I was left with was bitter heartache and sorrow which turned to resentment, anger and hatred. I felt deceived, not only by them but also by the Lord who I believed sent them. And if I was to be honest, I still have no doubt that He sent them because He showed me in 2 dreams just before it all turned pearshaped. In the last dream, the whole Mormon Church had come to embrace me into their Church and as I kneeled to pray and give thanks to the Lord, these words came out of my mouth:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for you are with me; your rod and your staff they comfort me. Psalms 23:4
For you are with me... were the words that gave me a glimmer of hope through this very dark period of my walk with the Lord.
So I had no doubt He had sent them I just didn't understand why and what He was trying to accomplish, and it took me a few years of desparate Bible study and many more painful trials to realize:
O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ has been openly set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received you the Spirit by the works of the (NC) law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. Galatians 3:1-4
The Lord came into my life at a time that I was not even looking for Him. I had given up on Him many years before. I was actually having a pity party for one when He came. I was thinking about all the good things I had done for people in my life and how I felt used and abandoned. While feeling sorry for myself a divine thought (as I call it) crashed my pity party and said, "What about Jesus? He did good deeds and was kind to all people and they crucified him on a cross." It was this thought alone that brought me to repentance. I bawled my eyes out as I thought of all the times I had spoken ill of Jesus. I felt so awful that I didn't even consider praying and asking Him for forgiveness, because I judged myself as being most unworthy of it. Instead I went to my mum and confessed to her how sorry I was and that I hoped I would come to know Jesus before she died, coz I couldn't survive without her. After this I went home and just sat in my lounge waiting in hope that He would come. (I had no idea that He actually would but I was desparately hoping). A few days later I returned to my mum with tears and said, "The Lord must have heard me confessing to you and known that I was sincere because He came Mum, and He came quickly."
That Divine thought which crashed my pity party was the Hearing of Faith, and that Faith produced fruits of Repentance (expressed to my mum) which in turn produced Faith and Hope in His Love, Goodness and Mercy (as shown by my sitting and waiting daily for Him to come) and eventually the Holy Spirit of Jesus came.
But what did I do after this?
Having received the Spirit by Faith I then tried to perfect myself by the flesh. By performing all the works of the commandments of Jesus (the New Covenant Laws) in my own strength. But like I said in my Opening Post this was just the Old Man trying to be Holy which is impossible. I had to suffer many painful trials and fail miserably to realize the truth of these verses:
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that which I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death (MY OLD MAN)? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:18-25
I'll tell you what first alerted me to this Paul, was reading the Forgiveness thread on the Debate Forum. And just so you know, I am in total agreement with all your posts about forgiveness. But the posts that caught my attention most of all were those from Wilber who admitted that he believed Jesus taught absolute forgiveness as you presented it, but confessed that He was struggling to perform it just like the above verses in Romans. He did not try to justify his unforgiveness by quoting scriptures to support such a stance or present scenarios that made forgiveness seem like an unclean thing as others did. No! In his confession he was proclaiming the NC Commandments of Jesus to be Holy and Good and True but that he lacked in his flesh the ability to perform that which is Good. To will is present with him but how to perform it is not.
When there is no good thing in our flesh, how are we supposed to perform the Commandments of Jesus (the Works of the New Covenant Law)?
For by GRACE are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
By Grace...
And not forgetting this:
Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3
The good works that God has before ordained that we walk in them are not works of the flesh but of the Spirit obtained by Grace. How do we obtain Grace?:
Likewise, you younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resists the proud, and gives grace to the humble. 1 Peter 5:5
Recall the parable of Jesus that had the Pharisee boasting to God and giving thanks that he was not like the taxcollector, while the taxcollector:
...standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Luke 18:13
What I am trying to bring attention to is the fact that many Christians may be walking around with the same attitude as this Pharisee and not even realize it. While an unbeliever somewhere (condemned to Eternal Hell by Christians) is being convicted of his sins by the Spirit of God, causing him to smote his breast and say, "God be merciful to me a sinner!" Jesus tells us what the result of these 2 attitudes will be:
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalts himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted. Luke 18:14
The unbeliever is given Grace while the believer walks away empty. There really is no partiality with God. And if you take a closer look at this parable you will notice that it is not a one off experience but everytime we go before God in our closet (Mat 6:6). I have learned that even unbelievers have closets too.
Are you with me Paul?
Am I making any sense?
With Love
Bitterlily |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think so Bitterlily. I to see it that I am unable to perform that which is right. You see it is by Faith in Jesus that we CAN OVERCOME the FLESH. But WHEN we do it isn't us that does it. It is Him. Jesus to others to SIN NO MORE. He BELIEVED they could and that the would otherwise His Words would leave His mouth and not accomplish their message. Jesus said to be PERFECT as our Father in Heaven is Perfect. Jesus believe this and we MUST also. But at the same time we must realize that we are UNABLE to perform that which is righteous. So if we do perform that which is righteous then it is Him and not us. If I should do what is sin then it is me. See we MUST realize that it is HIM that saves us by overcoming our flesh in us. We can only put Him on BY Faith. It is no wonder that the Spirit is given to those with Faith. So Jesus can perform the commandments and if we have Him so can we (thought it is really Him in us putting down sin for us).
Hopefully, that makes sense.
Paul |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| trettep wrote: | Hopefully, that makes sense.
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I think I understand what you are trying to say here and it is this process that I hope to clarify better. For example, you said:
| Quote: | | ...by Faith in Jesus that we CAN OVERCOME the FLESH. |
The Apostle James said:
Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:17
How does one exercise their Faith in Jesus' ability to OVERCOME the FLESH?
| Quote: | | We can only put Him on BY Faith. |
How does one put on Jesus (a.k.a the New Man) by Faith?
I know what you are saying is true. What I want to clarify is How we demonstrate (by works as per James) our Faith in Jesus, not to others but to Him. Actually I should correct this "not to others" statement because James said:
Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. James 2:18
So it would seem that faith can be demonstrated to others by works but I think it is the demonstration of our faith to the Lord that really matters.
I have noticed that some prefer to call James a heretic because of these statements about faith and works but I think it's only because of what they perceive as works. I think it would have been really helpful if James had given us an example but I suppose it was the Lord's will that he didn't. I would like to give an example of what I believe are the workings of our Faith in Jesus to Overcome our Flesh.
Lets just say that some one has deeply offended me. I'm very hurt, and I can feel my flesh starting to feel bitter, angry and resentful and maybe even wanting to take revenge on the offender. Then all of a sudden I am reminded of this verse:
But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39
Upon hearing this verse I am convicted by the sin in my heart, and the evil of my thinking, breaking one of the commandments of Jesus. I already know that there is no good in my flesh and I feel too weak to overcome this temptation without His help. What do I do? How do I show by works, that I have faith in Jesus to OVERCOME my flesh?
But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret shall reward you openly. Matthew 6:6
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
Say not, I will repay evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save you. Proverbs 20:22
...PRAY FOR THEM who despitefully use you, and persecute you; Matthew 5:44
Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart: wait, I say, on the LORD. Psalms 27:14
What am I waiting for?
God's Grace to empower me to turn the other cheek and forgive from the heart my brother (whether believer or not) all his debts and trespasses. To love my enemies and bless them that curse me. I once only had faith and hope that God's Grace could do all these things. Now I know from experience:
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, Unto him be glory in the church in Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. Ephesians 3:20-21
For it is God who WORKS in you both to WILL AND TO DO of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13
HALLELUJAH!!!
There is another aspect of this that I think I need to clarify which I will do in another post.
Much Love
Bitterlily |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| bitterlily wrote: | | There is another aspect of this that I think I need to clarify which I will do in another post. |
Here it goes.
For those who don't know, the example I gave above was one that I literally experienced. You may have noticed in it that I did not act on any of the evil thoughts and feelings that I had. Does this mean that I didn't sin? Scripture tells me that I did and here is why:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:28
The commandment that he should not commit adultery has already been violated IN HIS HEART. IOW He has SINNED in His Heart, because SIN is the TRANSGRESSION of the LAW (1 Jn 3:4). He needs to confess his SIN in order to be forgiven for it and cleansed from all unrighteousness as it is written:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
Here is another example that supports the notion that SIN is committed in the Heart:
Whosoever hates (MISEO) his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Note also that this word MISEO is the same word that Jesus uses in this verse:
If any man come to me, and hate (MISEO) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26
I think it was StMike that pointed out that this word means "TO LOVE LESS" which is supported by the WordStudy Dictionary:
| Quote: | | To love less. In Luk_14:26 Jesus contrasts love to family with love to Himself "If any come to me, and hate [miseí, pres. act. indic. 3d person sing.] not his father, and mother, and wife, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Here Jesus asserts His deity. Every member of man's family is a human being, and the love shown to humans compared to the love shown to Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, must be so different that the former seems like hatred. The meaning of miséō as loving less is made clear in Mat_10:37, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." In His commands for loving other human beings, the Lord never said, "Love other human beings as you love Me," but "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" (Mat_19:19). When it comes to loving God, however, He is placed in a unique position (Mat_22:37-38). |
I thought it important to give the definition of MISEO to highlight that it is not as straightforward as we would consider HATRED. But regardless of whether we believe this definition or not we are told by our Lord:
You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 19:19; Matthew 22:39; Mark 12:31; Luke 10:27; Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:10; James 2:8)
Love your enemies (Mat 5:44; Luk 6:27; Luk 6:35)
In anyway that we fall short in our HEARTS of LOVING our NEIGHBOUR and our ENEMIES we SIN (transgress the Law) and need to confess it to be cleansed of all unrighteousness. God giving us the Grace to overcome it.
It might be helpful to some to highlight part of the Dictionary Definition for the word GRACE (CHARIS):
| Strong's wrote: | | ...especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy). |
| Thayers wrote: | | ...of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues |
| WordStudy wrote: | A favor done without expectation of return; the absolutely free expression of the loving kindness of God to men finding its only motive in the bounty and benevolence of the Giver; unearned and unmerited favor. Cháris stands in direct antithesis to érga (G2041), WORKS, the two being mutually exclusive. God's grace affects man's sinfulness and not only forgives the repentant sinner, but brings joy and thankfulness to him. It changes the individual to a new creature without destroying his individuality(2Co_5:17; Eph_2:8-9)....
Cháris is initially regeneration, the work of the Holy Spirit in which spiritual life is given to man and by which his nature is brought under the dominion of righteousness. The maintenance of this condition requires an unbroken and immense supply of grace. Grace remains constant in, and basic to, a believer's fight without against the devil and his struggle within against sin. Renewal is stimulated and impelled by God's illuminating and strengthening of the soul, and will continue and increase so long as the soul perseveres. God's grace insures that those who have been truly regenerated will persevere until the end of life. This entire work is called sanctification, a work of God "whereby we are renewed in the WHOLE MAN and are enabled more and more to die daily unto sin and to live unto righteousness"...(Rom 12:2; 2Co 4:16; Eph 4:23; Col 3:10) |
God's Grace LITERALLY saves us from our SINS by cleansing and strengthening our HEARTS!
Love All 
Bitterlily |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 910
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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I see Grace as "favor". We ACCESS Grace via Faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Paul did teach that we had to do something in order to be saved. In fact, Paul taught salvation via works. Not our works but the works of the Christ - His works.
(King James Version)
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
See what Paul said? - he is telling us that it is by works that we will receive "eternal life" (SALVATION). Not OUR works but that Works are indeed required. That word "deeds" is from a Greek word elsewhere translated as "works".
So it should be no wonder that when Jesus said Sin no more or to be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect that He wants us to produce THOSE works by which one will then receive ETERNAL LIFE.
I all to often hear one say that they can do that which is good (that is true) but He (Jesus) can. And via Jesus alive in us via FAITH we DO perform that which is Good (rather Him thru us). This is how sin is destroyed in our own body of flesh. If we lose site of this and DWELL on the fact that we can't do what is righteous were potentially suspect to be denied of the Life that is in Him if we are to continue in the practice of sin.
We read:
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
So obviously the opposite is he who does sin:
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
So we must not let ourselves be drained of hope by dwelling on our inability to overcome sin and realize that sin will be overcome via that Faith in our Lord and Savior - Jesus the Christ.
Paul |
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JimD
Rattlesnake
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like you, bitterlily & I understand this pretty good, it is starting to make my head spin, discussing it so much.
I am sick with a cold right now, so maybe thats what is doing it??? Love, JimD |
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