 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: What blinds us spiritually? Love or Hatred? |
 |
|
What are these Scribes & Pharisees blind with?
Love or Hate?
Matthew 23:
16Woe unto you, ye blind guides,
which say,
Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing;
but
whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Summary:
Since God loves the seeing and the blind, Mt 5:43-48,
then
the first blindness is my Hatred for any person blinded by Hate of physical blindness or by physical blindness or by both.
In that blind Hatred, I am blind even tho I see!
In that blindness of hate, I am doubly blind when blind!
See Luke 9:60 for the principle.
What is this Servant of God blind with?
Love or Hate?
Isaiah 42:
19Who is
blind, but my servant?
or
deaf, as my messenger that I sent?
who is blind as he that is perfect,
and blind as the LORD's servant?
20Seeing many things, but thou observest not;
opening the ears, but he heareth not.
21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Luke 4:
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;
he hath sent me
to heal the brokenhearted,
to preach
deliverance to the captives,
and
recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Summary:
Since God loves both the blind and the seeing,
my first sight is my Vision of Love for both,
or we can say:
my first blindness is my blindness of Love to or for any Hatred of any blinded person.
In that Blindness of Love,
we see even when blind! 2 Cor 12:9-10
And we have keener sight and double-powered sight when sighted!
Hope this helps us all to have the Eyes to see, and the ears to hear, and the senses to sense.
With the Blindness of the Justice of Lady Love for all, which is why Love is painted blind,
with none of the blindness of Hatred for any,
with Sighted Hatred only for the sin of hating any,
atoz
Last edited by atoz on Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: What blinds us spiritually? Love or Hatred? |
|
|
| atoz wrote: | What are these Scribes & Pharisees blind with?
Love or Hate?
Matthew 23:16Woe unto you, ye blind guides,
which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Summary:
Since God loves the seeing and the blind, Mt 5:43-48,
then the first blindness is my Hatred for any person blinded by Hate of by physical blindness or by both.
In that blind Hatred, I am blind even tho I see!
In that blindness of hate, I am doubly blind when blind!
|
I fail to see any connection between Matthew 23:16, and your summary of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In Genesis 19:11 the Sodomites were struck blind, we later learn that in God's eyes their primary sin was pride. I am not sure that it is really associated with hatred or love.
God causes spiritual blindness:
| Quote: | Deuteronomy 28:15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
:25 The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth.
:26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away.
:27 The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured
:28 The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. |
And God cures spiritual blindness:
| Quote: | | Deuteronomy 29:4 But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: What blinds us spiritually? Love or Hatred? |
|
|
| galen wrote: | | atoz wrote: | What are these Scribes & Pharisees blind with?
Love or Hate?
Matthew 23:16Woe unto you, ye blind guides,
which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Summary:
Since God loves the seeing and the blind, Mt 5:43-48,
then the first blindness is my Hatred for any person blinded by Hate of by physical blindness or by both.
In that blind Hatred, I am blind even tho I see!
In that blindness of hate, I am doubly blind when blind!
|
I fail to see any connection between Matthew 23:16, and your summary of it. |
Thanx for your honesty Galen!
Now you did not explicitly ask a question as to the connection or connectivity of what to what.
But I am going to treat your statement as a questioning cry of how they are connected.
ok?smile
When I hate myself as blind,
I am doubly blind when blind: I am eye-blind and mind-blind.
And even when I see, I am still blind with Hate for the blind. 2 Cor 12:9-10.
So the P&S,
who were blind with wrong Hatred for the poor while correctly loving the rich or the gold,
were not willing to see and so could not see that
to hate self as poor was as bad as Hatred for the temple.
In other words,
In the poisonous mixture of
Love of selves as rich mixed with Hate of selves as poor,
they correctly thought that Love was owed to the rich gold,
but mis-thought that Love was not owed to the temple.
God says that we owe Love to everything:
the rich and poor, the gold and copper, the good and the bad, etc and etc.
Romans 13:8. Matthew 5:43-48.
The P&S were saying that it is ok to hate whoever or whatever as long as you loved being rich or loved gold.
There are none so blind as those who so won't see,
and
there are none so unwilling to see as those who don't love who or what they are looking at or who or what they have to see or look at.
Hope that helps.
If not, please ask your question more explicitly!
Please don't be shy!
Stump me!smile
with the Vision of Love for both the sighted and the blind, for those with knowledge and those ignorant, for those who succeed and those who fail,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| galen wrote: |
In Genesis 19:11 the Sodomites were struck blind, we later learn that in God's eyes their primary sin was pride. I am not sure that it is really associated with hatred or love.
.....
|
Thanx, Galen.
Your example gives me a better idea of where you are coming from.
Now when God is proud of you or JC,
or has pride in you or in JC, Mt 3:17, 12:18, 17:5
what's wrong with that pride?
Nothing---since God loves both the proud and the humble---Mt 5:43-48,
and so
God is proud in Love of the humble,
and
God is humble in Love of the proud,
to teach us
how to be proud of Him
is
to be proud of Him in Love of the humble,
and
how to be humble
is
to be humble in Love of the proud.
Do you see?
So where is the sin in pride and in humilty?
The sin in pride is not the pride but any Hatred of the humble.
The sin in humility is not the humilty but is any Hatred for the proud.
Do you follow?
Is why God says:
Matthew 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased;
and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
meaning that:
whosoever shall exalt himself in Hate of the abased shall be abased;
and he that shall humble himself in Love of the abased and the exalted shall be exalted.
It wd make no sense for God to exalt us as a result of us abasing ourselves IF being exalted was already a sin of itself in the first place.
Do you see?
So the sin is in HOW we exalt ourselves and in HOW we humble ourselves.
So, there is as much sin in humility as there is in pride!
Please see the parable of the talents, with special attention to the one who had had been humbled with the one talent.
| galen wrote: |
......
God causes spiritual blindness:
| Quote: | Deuteronomy 28:15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
:25 The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth.
:26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away.
:27 The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured
:28 The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. |
|
Those verses show that curses and madness and confusion and diseases and defeats and etc are the result of that original spiritual blindness of Hatred for the blind or the cursed or for the etc caused by NOT obeying God's law of Love for all: see Leviticus 19:17-18, 34:
The Spiritual Curse of Hating curses,
the spiritual Insanity of hating the insane,
the Spiritual confusion of hating the confused,
the spiritual defeat of hating defeats,
and etc.
| galen wrote: |
And God cures spiritual blindness:
| Quote: | | Deuteronomy 29:4 But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear. |
....
|
Right:
God cures the spiritual Blindness of Hate for any words or their opposites
by the Spiritual Cure of Love for all words and their opposites.
Here is that Cure-all of Love:
Luke 6:
27But I say unto you which hear,
Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest:
for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:
condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:
forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
39And he spake a parable unto them,
Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
40The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
41And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
42Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.
Hope that helps some more.
with The Vision of Love and Respect
for the haters and lovers,
for the respectors and the disrespectors,
for the seeing and the blind, for the deaf and the hearing, for curses and blessings, for victories and defeats,
for winners and losers, for successes and faliures,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
I see a far greater connection between blindness and pride; than I see between blindness and hatred.
Reasoning and logic aside; it is man's reasoning and logic that gets him into trouble.
We can only be assured of pure doctrine, when we stay in God's Word and Will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| galen wrote: |
I see a far greater connection between blindness and pride;
than I see between blindness and hatred.
|
Ok, Galen, Thanx for your reply.
So how do you see blindness more connected to pride?
What are the connections you see betwen pride and blindness?
And are you proud to make those connections?smile
Or,
Are you humbled by making those connections?
And,
if you're humbled or filled with humility by being able to make those connections,
are you proud of your humilty,
and
does God take pride in your humility?
And how do you see blindness connected to Hatred to a lesser extent than blindness to pride?
What do you see as the connectioons between hatred and blindness?
| galen wrote: |
Reasoning and logic aside; it is man's reasoning and logic that gets him into trouble.
|
Agreed, I do see that.
I am not blind to that at all!smile
So what is it about man's logic & reasoning that gets him into trouble?
Is it the Hate of any word in man's premise that is already man's trouble and so is troubled and troubling--since God loves all words: Mt 5:43-48, Eccle 3:1-8?
Or,
is it the logic of itself?
Can logic be illogical of itself?
Isn't logic logical of itself?
| galen wrote: |
We can only be assured of pure doctrine, when we stay in God's Word and Will.
|
Right, I do and an see that, I am not blind to that at all!smile
So what is God's First Pure Will and Word?
Is it Love for all words and their enemies or opposites as per
Matthew 22:36-40; 7:12 and 5:43-48. 1 John 3:1-3
Or what do you think it is?
Thanx in Love for your answers in advance.
in the Pure Love of God for the pure and impure, the good and the bad, the just and the unjust, the logical and illogical, the humble and the proud, the seeing and the blind, the haters and the lovers, etc and etc,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We have only a few instances where folks were struck blind. So to make conclusions about how they became blind, we must look at those instances.
I think that the first occurrence is in Genesis 19:11, when the Sodomites were struck blind. As I previously stated, we later learn that in God's eyes their primary sin was pride not hatred. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| galen wrote: | We have only a few instances where folks were struck blind. So to make conclusions about how they became blind, we must look at those instances.
I think that the first occurrence is in Genesis 19:11, when the Sodomites were struck blind. As I previously stated, we later learn that in God's eyes their primary sin was pride not hatred. |
Thanx, galen.
But since God has pride and is proud,
how was pride their primary sin?
What is sinful about pride?
What is not sinful about God's pride?
Are you proud of God?
Do you have pride in God?
with the Pride of L&R for God and JC,
Proud in Love and R for God and JC,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atoz wrote: | | galen wrote: | We have only a few instances where folks were struck blind. So to make conclusions about how they became blind, we must look at those instances.
I think that the first occurrence is in Genesis 19:11, when the Sodomites were struck blind. As I previously stated, we later learn that in God's eyes their primary sin was pride not hatred. |
Thanx, galen.
But since God has pride and is proud,
how was pride their primary sin?
|
How was Sodom's sin pride?
Well God says so.
Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| galen wrote: | | atoz wrote: | | galen wrote: | We have only a few instances where folks were struck blind. So to make conclusions about how they became blind, we must look at those instances.
I think that the first occurrence is in Genesis 19:11, when the Sodomites were struck blind. As I previously stated, we later learn that in God's eyes their primary sin was pride not hatred. |
Thanx, galen.
But since God has pride and is proud,
how was pride their primary sin?
|
How was Sodom's sin pride?
Well God says so.
Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. |
Yes, God says so!smile
But HOW does He say it is so?
HOW is it HOW it is so as a fact?smile
How does God say that pride was and is sin?
Are you saying that God is saying that any pride is a sin?
Are you saying that God is saying that when God is proud of or has pride in JC,
that God's pride a sin?
Are you saying that your pride in God or you being proud of God is a sin?
Example:
HOW JC died was by crucifixion.
But HOW he died HOW he died by crucifixion was in what attitude he died!
Romans 5:5-10.
Do you see?
There are 2 hows!
How JC died how he died was in what attitude he died.
Example:
How you danced that square dance was really good.
But how you danced how you danced that square-dance is about in what attitude you danced.
see?
Example:
How I ran that race was slow.
But how I ran how slow I ran is another how!smile
Example:
How that person eats is with chopsticks.
But how he eats how he eats with chopsticks is another how.smile
Example:
Suppose I tell my teacher that the answer to math problem is 49.
My teach: Atoz, how did you arrive at that answer?
atoz: 7 x 7.
Teach: hmmmmmmmm
There are no sevens in that equation, atoz.
Did you copy that answer from the student sitting next to you without working it out yourself?
Atoz: [no answer.]
Teach: Any one else want to say HOW you got 49 other than multiplying 7 by 7, even tho 49 is the right answer?
Other student: It is 6x8 + [1/4 + 1/4+ 1/4 + 1/4] = 49.
Teach to other student: How you arrived at that answer is the right HOW by which to arrive at that answer.
Atoz, how you arrived at that right answer was wrong.
Follow, Galen?smile
Any math or english teachers can chime in!
So
how is it that how God says that pride is a sin?
How is pride the sin God says it is?
One more example:
How does God say that murder is a sin?
Does God say that HOW killing is a sin is in the physical manner of the killing itself?
Or does God say that HOW the how of the physical killing is done is the sin?
Example:
How God killed His Son by the how of crucifixion was in Love.
John 3:16
How the jews, who God used to kill His son, killed his son by crucifixion was murder due to the HOW of hatred in their attitude.
That's HOW killing is the sin of murder it is.
Acts 4:26-29
So HOW God killed
and HOW the jews killed
was by the same physical HOW
but
was by a different attitudinal HOW.
So HOW is pride the sin that God says it is?
Hint: see 1 Corin 16:14.
By the way,
are you proud of God?
Do you have pride in God?smile
How are you proud of God?
How do you have pride in God?
Hope that helps.
with God's Love and Respect for Him,
in which Love
I am proud of God's pride to not only live for you & me but also to live in Love for U & me,
and
in which Love
I am humbled by God's humility to not only die for you and me but also to die in Love for U & me,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5046
Location: Missouri
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Atoz, you might enjoy reading this thread from back 2003 It's just a little over a page. Title Pride!
PRIDE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atoz wrote: |
But HOW does He say it is so?
|
I am only saying that God tells is that Sodoms sin was pride, because it is recorded in God's Word.
To say that hatred causes blindness, would require God having said so. I am simply un-aware of God having said that such is so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| galen wrote: | | atoz wrote: |
But HOW does He say it is so?
|
I am only saying that God tells is that Sodoms sin was pride, because it is recorded in God's Word.
To say that hatred causes blindness, would require God having said so. I am simply un-aware of God having said that such is so. |
Thanx, Galen.
Hope this helps you be aware!smile
1 John 2:
9He that saith he is in the light,
and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11But he that hateth his brother
is in darkness,
and walketh in darkness,
and knoweth not whither he goeth,
because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
in the Love-Light of mind that open the Mind's eye
to the darkness of mind-blinding Hate,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nobby wrote: | Atoz, you might enjoy reading this thread from back 2003 It's just a little over a page. Title Pride!
PRIDE |
Thanx, Nobby!
Will save it for the am!smile
In Love that saves the best for last,smile
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
