Bible Difficulties

RDK · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: Bible Difficulties

I have asked this question to everyone I thought knew something about the Bible and I get no definitive answer...why are the new and old testaments so opposite to each other? It doesnt take a genius to realize that both renditions of Gods personality cant exist in the same package-one Bible. God in the old taught that it was a good thing to kill your enemy. God in the new has told us that it is better to love our enemies. I hope that this question is simple enough so as not to require scriptural references for this. Both methods simply cannot express two extremes of one personality. Do you teach your children to first retaliate against their brothers then later to love and pray for them? This theme is repeated throughout the Bible in hundreds of examples. You should all know by now that love is Gods greatest teaching to us. Death and destruction was not part of Jesus's agenda on this Earth. I remember that He demonstrated that he could kill (by withering a tree) but He chose to love instead. I've been told for years that God just changed the way He dealt with mankind. But what of the scriptures that say that God is the same yesterday today and forever? I also have heard that the Devil has a very actve role in confusing men. What if God got blamed for the actions of the one masqueraiding as an angel of light. I am very uncomfortable with the idea that my Father could possibly be a baby killer. Let's answer these questions now for the sake of myself and many many others who won't find faith because of the extreme anger they have for a God who doesn't make sense to them. As for myself, I have come to know of God as an all loving caring being who doesnt have to prove that He is a warlord of fear and destruction. Please answer if you can with some kind of reason and logic. I've already heard too many stories to explain this. Can it be figured out? Thank You for your time with this.

Diane · Cobra Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 470

james · Bear Cub Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 648

RDK wrote,

I hope that this question is simple enough so as not to require scriptural references for this.

In not requiring scriptual references for this question, all you will recieve is a bunch of opinions on the subject. If looking for a definite answer, scripture(Hebrews mainly) is the place to get this. After all this is a "Bible Discussion"site.

wilber · Banned Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 581

Hello RDK I'm pleased to meet you. My 2cents is this:
1. For true followers such as yourself the questions will never end - that is how we grow closer to God. Keep asking.
2. Your present question is spot on. I thank you for raising it.
3. I understand your hesitation towards people quoting texts. William Blake said "Both read Bible day and night but you read black whilst I read white". We can make the bible say what we want it to say.
4. In answer to your question - I dont know and I too want answers.
I understand that Jesus was quoting from Leviticus when he summed up the entire OT law as "Love God, Love your neighbour as yourself".
I also understand that if God wipes obscenely evil societies off the face of the planet - that is not the end of the individuals existence, in fact, it may be a kindness which I might wish for myself.
Finally, God seems to reveal himself slowly, in greater and greater measure throughout history as humankind is able to accept the revelation. What I mean is, it may not be God who is changing so much as our view of Him.

Do those thoughts satisfy me. No. So, once again, thank you for raising the question and I look forward to more answers.

Wilber

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6840 Location: USA

2. Those, therefore, who, in considering this question, propose to inquire what the essence of God is, only delude us with frigid speculations, it being much more our interest to know what kind of being God is, and what things are agreeable to his nature. For, of what use is it to join Epicures in acknowledging some God who has cast off the care of the world, and only delights himself in ease? What avails it, in short, to know a God with whom we have nothing to do? The effect of our knowledge rather ought to be, first, to teach us reverence and fear; and, secondly, to induce us, under its guidance and teaching, to ask every good thing from him, and, when it is received, ascribe it to him. For how can the idea of God enter your mind without instantly giving rise to the thought, that since you are his workmanship, you are bound, by the very law of creation, to submit to his authority? - that your life is due to him? - that whatever you do ought to have reference to him? If so, it undoubtedly follows that your life is sadly corrupted, if it is not framed in obedience to him, since his will ought to be the law of our lives. On the other hand, your idea of his nature is not clear unless you acknowledge him to be the origin and fountain of all goodness. Hence would arise both confidence in him, and a desire of cleaving to him, did not the depravity of the human mind lead it away from the proper course of investigation.
For, first of all, the pious mind does not devise for itself any kind of God, but looks alone to the one true God; nor does it feign for him any character it pleases, but is contented to have him in the character in which he manifests himself always guarding, with the utmost diligences against transgressing his will, and wandering, with daring presumptions from the right path. He by whom God is thus known perceiving how he governs all things, confides in him as his guardian and protector, and casts himself entirely upon his faithfulness, perceiving him to be the source of every blessing, if he is in any strait or feels any want, he instantly recurs to his protection and trusts to his aid - persuaded that he is good and merciful, he reclines upon him with sure confidence, and doubts not that, in the divine clemency, a remedy will be provided for his every time of need - acknowledging him as his Father and his Lords he considers himself bound to have respect to his authority in all things, to reverence his majesty aim at the advancement of his glory, and obey his commands, regarding him as a just judge, armed with severity to punish crimes, he keeps the judgement-seat always in his view. Standing in awe of it, he curbs himself, and fears to provoke his anger. Nevertheless, he is not so terrified by an apprehension of judgement as to wish he could withdraw himself, even if the means of escape lay before him; nays he embraces him not less as the avenger of wickedness than as the rewarder of the righteous; because he perceives that it equally appertains to his glory to store up punishment for the one, and eternal life for the other. Besides, it is not the mere fear of punishment that restrains him from sin. Loving and revering God as his father, honouring and obeying him as his master, although there were no hell, he would revolt at the very idea of offending him.
Such is pure and genuine religion, namely, confidence in God coupled with serious fear - fear, which both includes in it willing reverence, and brings along with it such legitimate worship as is prescribed by the law. And it ought to be more carefully considered that all men promiscuously do homage to God, but very few truly reverence him. On all hands there is abundance of ostentatious ceremonies, but sincerity of heart is rare.

John Calvin

atoz · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:09 am Post subject:

wilber · Banned Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 581

apologies

Silver Surfer · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Bible Difficulties

atoz · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:46 am Post subject:

wilber · Banned Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 581

Hello my good man Atoz.
Eeh by gum!

Why am I not surprised that you are a friend of William.
The marriage of heaven and hell.
One of my favourites is "The garden of Love"

Farmer

RDK · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: Bible Difficulties RDK

God has made the human family with the capacity to understand, to reason, to make choices. In teaching us, he is giving us a chance to view and decide which way we want to live. Is it a surprise that Jesus gave the examples of love for us to live by, and not that other

stuff? Jesus gave us those lessons by inspiration of His Father. It certainly is interesting that vengence and wrath was not what he wanted His children to follow. Can you believe that a Father wants to teach His children to kill each other. Would God pit sinner against sinner that way? If God is demonstrating opposites to us, then one is named Jesus and the other is Satan. Let's not confuse the work of one with the other. God told Jesus to tell us that He was love with all of its virtues. Jesus did not enforce those nasty destructive laws as was told to Moses by somebody. Instead He taught us to be kind and loving.
Yes God certainly has the power to teach whatever He likes, whenever He wants, but did HE. If God is love, He made His perfect will for mankind perfectly clear by having us follow the ways of love, not that other stuff.
God never could have had any other lesson for us that could last. He wanted us to choose love as only choice, and NOT follow those previous messages of cursing and destruction.
Let's keep these lessons simple OK? Love IS the method by which we are to make all of our decisions in this life. Jesus did not come doing the methods of the god of this world with all of it's curses and damnation. Instead, He gave us the truth about God's nature, something that man had never heard before. He SAVED us from ignorance and condemnation by telling us so.
God is allowing the imitator to test our worth by giving that same imitator a chance to cause us to believe a lie about our Father. MY FATHER IS NOT, NOR HAS HE EVER BEEN A KILLER. The devil took over this Earth after he fooled the first two humans into believing lies about our Father. Is it just a coincidence that those laws of sin and death began that day? The devil has persuaded men that their own loving Father was a killer, not the loving forgiving God whom I have come to know.
Yes, we have to choose whom we will follow. WE have to know that two distinct messages have been given through the instructions in the Bible-Jesus vs.the devil.
This may seem to be totally destructive to our belief that the whole Bible is just one continuing stream of perfect information. Should that shake your faith? No, it shouldn't. Jesus knew that the true lessons were those taught to the heart of man. He did not even author his own book.
Please do not think that we should throw The Book away. The words that you read anywhere should be validated or interpreted through the eyes of God's spirit, namely L.O.V.E. We, as humans, are blind until we come to God to show us the simple truth.

atoz · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject:

So RDK,

Do you believe that Jesus' own Father God so loved the world that He gave in Love or took his life in Love or killed him in Love just as God had also told Abraham to kill his son Isaac in Love?
John 3:
16For God so loved the world, that he gave[took the life of] his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Genesis 22
1And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

2And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Do you believe that JC took his own life in Love by cops, er, ah, I mean, by the Jews?
John 10:
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

In the Love by which JC drove the moneychangers + the sheep + the oxen out of the temple,
and
by which Love he
emptied the cash registers on the ground
and
turned the tables up side down,
Atoz

Bonus:
John 2:
15And when he had made a scourge of small cords,
he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Greetings RDK,

The answer to your questions is really pretty simple.

If God could not preserve the house of Israel the linage to Christ would be lost. Basically that is the reason for the mass slaughter of the enemy.

It is obvious in the reading of the OT that it took very little to sway his chosen people to idol worship and join in the heathen nations.

The house of Israel would not survive if they turned to idols and the linage of Christ would be lost forever and so would our salvation.

After the birth of Christ the danger of loosing the linage was gone and the NT began. God extended his hands to the enemy (the Gentiles nations) and they became part of His grace and mercy, which was not possible until the New Covenant began.

The Jew and Gentile have become one and you do not kill your brother.

In reading the OT you will always see Gods retaliation against the enemy when they came against the those to whom God had chosen to bear His only begotten Son.

Hope that you are now able to see more clearly the extent of God's mercy and grace.

In Christ, Judy

Diane · Cobra Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 470

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Hi RDK,

I am pulling up my answer to you again because I don't want it to get lost. This was my long awaited answer to the same question you had. God Bless You.