Immanuel

james · Fierce Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 576

towshab I would like to continue our discussion on (E)Immanuel if it is okay with you,

towshab wrote,

james wrote:
Matt quoted Isaiah 7:14, so he was not the only one. This makes your two witnesses.

Well considering Isaiah was receiving prophecy concerning his own son, your 2nd witness is not there. From Strong's

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H6005
עמּנוּאל
‛immânû'êl
im-maw-noo-ale'
From H5973 and H410 with suffix pronoun inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a name of Isaiah’s son: - Immanuel.
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Notice Strong's says nothing about Jesus but does call Immanuel on of Isaiah's sons. So now Matthew is back down to one witness.

not at all...forone...

when the word is listed with it's references strongs says it is a messianic name....and yes it was a son of isaiah...

which only shows us it is prophetic...

and we are told in heb.'s the law is only a shadow of the things to come...

back up to two...

You are really grasping now. None of what you just wrote even comes remotely close to proving anything except perhaps in your own mind. Strong's says nothing about the name being prophetic, Hebrews contradicts Torah and is therefore invalid, and Isaiah having a son name Immanuel does not mean it will be the future name of a pagan savior.
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Immanuel is in strongs as a reference to Jesus, it can be spelt with an -I- or an -E- at the beginning, hence we have:

G1694 Emmanuel - of Heb. or. [H6005]; God with us ; Emmanuel , a name of Christ:- Emmanuel

Common people heard Him gladly

towshab · Labrador Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 312

Sorry, this is the first time I ventured into this forum. I guess it depends on which version of Strong's you use. I copied the one that comes with e-sword (great free program wish they had legitimate Tanakh). Where did yours come from? There have been many revisions to Strong's. Here is the entry I copied from htmlbible.com

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from '`im' (5973) and ''el' (410) with a pronominal suffix inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah's son:--Immanuel.
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So the one they use, and e-sword uses, both say nothing of Jesus and the name Immanuel.

james · Fierce Wolf Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 576

Mine is Strong Exaustive Concordance with dictionaries of the Hebrew and Greek Words. I find it interesting reference material but I never put all trust in these things. I figured if they were so exact on translating the original language there would be nothing to debate, and I for one am not a Hebrew or Greek scholar. I just enjoy searching out other perspectives, it gives me a clearer picture.

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Given the time-frame references in Is7:1 to Pekah and Rezin, it's more likely the first Immanuel was Ahaz' as-yet-unborn son (and probably unconceived son given the word "maiden" of the mother) Hezekiah rather than another son of Isaiah. Why would Isaiah's his own son's birth by the death of Ahaz' enemies? At that point one of Pekah and Rezin's threats to Ahaz was that apparently didn't have an heir ~ either because other wives had produced none, or even because Ahaz had sacrificed his firstborn in Gehenna.

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

James