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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Another J.W blunder and mistruth. |
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The Watchtower author (J.W's god apparently) of the following article (i. e. 'IS THERE REALLY A DEVIL?' - Dated Sept 1st. 2001) also present to us further absolutely false and thus misleading information. How?
They write: "the Devil . . . . lied to Adam and Eve. (p. 6)
The J.W's Serpent (allegedly manipulated by their Satan being) of course never spoke to Adam and thus couldn't have deceived him.
Cheers! |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1768
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: |
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composer,
Won't it be nice when God's kingdom rules fully over this earth and people no longer have learning or social disorders? And when all people won't think too much of themselves and will actually display humility?
Satan's lie made him responsible for the death of Adam and Eve and, in fact, the whole human family.—Romans 5:12.
It is true Adam wasn't deceived by that lie, and Eve was. But it is because of that lie that we all die, and Satan became a manslayer.
John 8: 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].
Certain people follow their father in trying to appear righteous when their works expose who they really are.
2 Cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5703
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | Satan's lie made him responsible for the death of Adam and Eve and, in fact, the whole human family.—Romans 5:12. |
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Doesn't say anything about Satan's responsibility.
| TBax wrote: | | John 8: 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. |
The word translated "devil" means slanderer or false accuser.
| TBax wrote: | Certain people follow their father in trying to appear righteous when their works expose who they really are.
2 Cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works. |
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
And anyway, all he has to be referring to is some specific accuser. Considering the various persecutions Christians went through around that time, it's not much of a stretch. And the word translated "angel" can also be translated "pastor." |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: J.W's |
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| TBax wrote: | composer,
Won't it be nice when God's kingdom rules fully over this earth and people no longer have learning or social disorders? And when all people won't think too much of themselves and will actually display humility?
:D |
You could start by trying it out for yourself now. Give it a shot!
| TBax wrote: | Satan's lie made him responsible for the death of Adam and Eve and, in fact, the whole human family.—Romans 5:12.
It is true Adam wasn't deceived by that lie, and Eve was. But it is because of that lie that we all die, and Satan became a manslayer. |
No it wasn't but it is currently way way beyond your current capacity to understand.
You just can't comprehend that Adam wasn't deceived by anything other than his own selfish lusts and desires from within himself. - 16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man . 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: (Matt. 15:16 - 20) KJV
| TBax wrote: | | John 8: 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. |
You quote passages 'inferring' the literal existence of your alleged Satan you also some times call the Devil.
#1: Satan is NEVER a proper name. It means adversary Male, or Female or Neuter Gender. Good or Bad
Now before you can claim your fallen heavenly angels literally exists you need evidence TBax, credible evidence and not just saying 'well it says Satan or Devil in the Text'
Perhaps for starters you could demonstrate from the Bible that this 'Satan the fallen heavenly angel literal spirit being of yours' is God's greatest enemy / adversary?
We then need to start at the Genesis narrative and you need to please provide your evidence how and when your fallen heavenly angel beings came into literal existence and what happened in the Genesis Eden narrative etc.?
| TBax wrote: | | Certain people follow their father in trying to appear righteous when their works expose who they really are. 2 Cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works. |
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (2 Pet. 2: 4) KJV
So all your fallen heavenly angel literal spirit beings that sinned are reserved in chains of darkness awaiting judgment TBax, so how do you explain that you say one of them is still shedding light and it, and others are still roaming free exerting their alleged evil influence on mankind?
Please provide accurate references and resources at all times as do I.
Thank you |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1768
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Dude, you will see a responce when you start making sense. That means nothing in your last post is worthy of a responce. 
| composer wrote: | | so how do you explain that you say one of them is still shedding light |
If you think Satan is shedding light, that would explain your teachings. That scripture is talking about how he is deceptive as you are.  You can't seem to understand anything.
John 8: 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].
Certain people follow their father in trying to appear righteous when their works expose who they really are. 2 Cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works. |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1768
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
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FFT,
Yes, let's have an athiest explain scripture to us. 
| FFT wrote: | | Doesn't say anything about Satan's responsibility. |
John 8: 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].
| FFT wrote: | | The word translated "devil" means slanderer or false accuser. |
So? The main one is called "the Devil". Where is the first lie recorded? How was he a manslayer when he began? |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Now be a nice little apologist for the J.W's TBax and start supporting your sillinesses with what we Bible Students call 'Scriptural evidence?'
You can start by attempting to answer my previous Post above: -
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: J.W's
Scriptural evidence is what we need TBax?
Others including me have set you the example you need to follow so off you go.
As far as the 'First Liar' that to is way way beyond your current limitations, so I shall not respond unless and I mean unless I see a prolonged and genuine effort on your part to actually stop being an immature little ungodly school boy and start supporting your current beliefs with some Scriptural credible support?
Off you go!
Thank you |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5703
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | Yes, let's have an athiest explain scripture to us. |
Well it's not as if the Christians are making much headway, might as well listen to someone that's going to bother thinking.
| TBax wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | Doesn't say anything about Satan's responsibility. |
John 8: 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. |
Aw. You think you're making progress.
Where does this make a connection between the serpent and Satan?
| TBax wrote: | | So? The main one is called "the Devil". |
Retroactive continuity. You only come to this interpretation because of your already-held belief in "the Devil."
| TBax wrote: | | Where is the first lie recorded? |
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
| TBax wrote: | | How was he a manslayer when he began? |
Good question. Seeing as the serpent actually told the truth, and God only did what He did out of jealousy, perhaps it's God that's "the Devil" in this story? |
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Dust
Tiger
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 844
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Interesting......
A discussion involving a man who is either truely deceived and/or trapped in his deception.....
a man who's heart is full of bitterness and anger, his true aim being anything but peace.....
and a man who has adopted an unnatural state or stance.
If you must.......proceed. |
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TBax
King of the Jungle
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1768
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Aw. You think you're making progress. |
Not one bit. Not with you 3.
It takes reasonable people to listen and make sense of what I wrote. What I see with these responces is silliness. That's right. Your questions and statements aren't deep or insightful at all, just silly.
| FFT wrote: | | Retroactive continuity. You only come to this interpretation because of your already-held belief in "the Devil." |
Yes. And the same is true with Jesus and his audience.
| FFT wrote: | | Where does this make a connection between the serpent and Satan? |
I am not supprised you don't get it. And you won't until you stop worshiping yourself. |
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composer2005
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: J.W's |
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| TBax wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | Aw. You think you're making progress. |
Not one bit. Not with you 3. :lol: |
But we've made progress at this Forum proving the J.W's are a fraud led by a false god that does 100% backflips -
Michael ISN'T Christ]
Michael IS the Pope
Oops!
Michael IS Christ
No fallen heavenly angel literal spirit beings.
No Satan literal fallen heavenly angel spirit being.
No War in God's heavenly domain
No literal demons
Satan is NOT a legitimate or proper name
Other information withheld because you are currently incapable of grasping basics let alone Milk or Meat.
The list against you and the J.W's goes on and on.
Got anything else to offer that hasn't been decimated already?
Go for it! |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Gee, and I thought I was one-tracked towards disproving the whole of Christianity. Seems someone here really has it out for JWs! |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| towshab wrote: | | I thought I was one-tracked towards disproving the whole of Christianity. |
if that was your goal you sure have failed miserably so far since almost everything you have said has been soundly defeated... |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | towshab wrote: | | I thought I was one-tracked towards disproving the whole of Christianity. |
if that was your goal you sure have failed miserably so far since almost everything you have said has been soundly defeated... |
Listen TSS, your sour grapes are really getting the best of you. Just drop it. Your need to insult me at every turn makes people want to investigate why it is you feel the need to degrade my character. Which is OK because maybe they will start thinking for themselves and who knows what will be the result? |
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