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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: Homosexual "marriage" and Theology |
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This heated and ongoing issue in this country does bring some theological questions to be answered. Gays everywhere are fighting for the "right to be married" redefining marriage in such a way that people are already asking whether or not they can be married to their pets.
It always irritates me when conservatives talk about whether gays should be allowed to marry, which displays ignorance of the larger issue. You see, I don't worry about whether a man should be allowed to marry a man, because I know it's impossible. God has made men to be joined only to women, both physically and spiritually:
24(A)For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2
Homosexuals pretending that they're "married" are like children playing "house". They go through the motions and create an alter-reality for themselves. This isn't something new, this is an ancient sin that Paul addressed in his day:
Romans 1:
24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be (AS)dishonored among them.
25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
"Gay marriage" is a make believe proposition for this precise reason. Paul says they are darkened in their foolishness, therefore they are deluded. Forgotten is the Covenant Marriage that involves a party of three, a man, a woman, and God. If any of these three are removed, there is no marriage.
So men cannot marry men and women cannot marry women by sheer virtue of gender. It's impossible.
Another example is liberal Catholics ever trying to get women into the priesthood. Whenever this question is presented to the Magisterium, the answer is always a terse, "This issue is closed." We won't even pretend that there can be any discussion on the matter because God did not create women with that role, nor is a woman permitted spiritual authority over a man. (1Tim 2:12) Gender mixing is addressed in the Bible as an abomination. (Deuteronomy 22:5) and its attempt is rebellion against God. Women are barred from the priesthood by their gender, just as a man is barred from marrying another man by his gender.
All of this is Satan's ongoing rebellion against God and all that God has declared holy. Marriage and family are the strength and fabric of society, is it any wonder why marriage and family are under such ceaseless attack?[/b] |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: |
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CCC 2357
| Quote: | | 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. |
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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3148
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Saint wrote: | | Women are barred from the priesthood by their gender, just as a man is barred from marrying another man by his gender. |
Let me ask you something, saint, do you think women are barred from being part of the spiritual priesthood?
1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Uh oh... 
He said... "Women"... |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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You're in for it now saintmichaeldefendthem! 
I'll grab the stake, ladies!!!
Who is gonna grab the coals and firewood?!?
And... oh yeah! Somebody get some sturrrrrrdy rope!! 
Gonna be a barbecue, To-Night!!!!!
Grab his leg! Grab his leg! Hold him! |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2032
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: |
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While I won't try to speculate whether the relationship between a gay couple truly is like a hetero marriage or not, because I cannot speak from experience on either, I did want to add one or two thoughts that came to mind.
One reason homosexual people want to be able to be legally married is to become entitled to the legal benefits of married couples. If the law allowed those benefits to any two adults in a "union", I wonder if as many would be seeking to legally get married. And I think this is a legitimate concern. The purpose of the laws of our country are not to enforce Bibllical standards, but to ensure peace, safety and harmony in society. As far as religion, our constitution says all of us should be free to worship as our conscience directs us.
So it isn't just a question of the government legitimizing something that the Bible condemns. The government must accept the fact that some people will form unions, whether heterosexual or same-sex, in which two people share a household. It must then ask, should such a household be entitled to the same legal standing as a traditional family? And I know, that would be opening a big can of worms, because then it wouldl have to tackle the qustions of what standards must such a household meet to qualify for legal benefits that "life-partners" and spouses receive?
With spouses, it's easy because there is a marriage certificate. With "life partners", it gets gray real fast. And that may be one reason some are in favor of saying "Let's just call it a marriage, legally, and then it's in black & white". |
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james
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 567
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have always seen the OT as a shadow of the NT as stated in Hebrews. Having said this in the OT only the Levitical men were allowed to do the priestly duties, not women. Yet what is their roll today in accord with the NT ?
(That is all I am saying seeing how I have never like the way my feet taste.) |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I have always seen the OT as a shadow of the NT as stated in Hebrews. Having said this in the OT only the Levitical men were allowed to do the priestly duties, not women. Yet what is their roll today in accord with the NT ?
(That is all I am saying seeing how I have never like the way my feet taste.) |
Good question. Oddly enough, they can have an even more powerful position in a parish than any man. Many parishes are not actually run by the senior pastor, but rather by a manager, and quite often this manager is a woman. She determines everything that goes on in the Parish from finances, to administrative actions, etc. In this setup, the priest has only the duties germane to his office, such as saying mass, hearing confessions, etc. But in many ways, he answers to the manager in matters of how the Parish is run. In this role, a woman can have adminstrative authority over all the men, but she still does not have the spiritual authority of a priest. She is much like an Army first sergeant, who is technically outranked by all the officers, but he runs the unit, not the officers. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Zathrus said:
| Quote: | One reason homosexual people want to be able to be legally married is to become entitled to the legal benefits of married couples. If the law allowed those benefits to any two adults in a "union", I wonder if as many would be seeking to legally get married. And I think this is a legitimate concern. The purpose of the laws of our country are not to enforce Bibllical standards, but to ensure peace, safety and harmony in society. As far as religion, our constitution says all of us should be free to worship as our conscience directs us.
So it isn't just a question of the government legitimizing something that the Bible condemns. The government must accept the fact that some people will form unions, whether heterosexual or same-sex, in which two people share a household. It must then ask, should such a household be entitled to the same legal standing as a traditional family? And I know, that would be opening a big can of worms, because then it wouldl have to tackle the qustions of what standards must such a household meet to qualify for legal benefits that "life-partners" and spouses receive? |
I live in Idaho. We just recently enshrined in our constitution the already existant law against homosexual unions. We did this because of several cases of activist judges overruling democratically enacted laws. While what you say bears true as sound government philosophy, history warns us of the startling truth that homosexual activity in society should be given as little berth as possible. Sodom was destroyed, it's said, because of the outcry of their neighbors. Far from staying in their private corner and practicing tolerance, homosexual gangs were foraging the countryside oppressing people in the surrounding area.
World history is replete with examples of cultures that lost sound sexual ethic. Because depravity always seeks lower ground (hell is never satisfied), pederasty always followed societal acceptance of homosexuality, and pederasty targets children in general, but boys exclusively. As a Libertarian, it rubs against my political leanings to censure homosexuals in any way, but the Spirit inside me says that we must do all we can to defend society against their metastisization.
Moreover, tax benefits can be seen as a moral blessing, which is exactly what the gay community seeks. Married couples are given tax benefits precisely because they are in a natural arrangement and one that embetters and strengthens society. There is a reason that roommates can't get tax benefits, or those couples who are just "shacking up" together. I believe it's very important to be scrupulous in who benefits from our marital tax laws. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2312
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| There is a section within this site for discussion on the homosexual issues and that is where this belongs. Moderators... please |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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45degreeN,
there are individual sections for discussions of many individual topics on this site. But I do not think each topic is limited to those discussion forums, though I could be wrong.
The way I understand it, in the Bible Debate Forum, every topic is open for DEBATE, as long as scripture is used to expose the faults, or implied faults of the subject topic.
Of course, as I said, I could be wrong... but then, what would we then be limited to debate in this forum?
Moderators... please explain? |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| james wrote: | I have always seen the OT as a shadow of the NT as stated in Hebrews. Having said this in the OT only the Levitical men were allowed to do the priestly duties, not women. Yet what is their roll today in accord with the NT ?
(That is all I am saying seeing how I have never like the way my feet taste.) |
Yes, YHVH decided to purposely keep people in the dark (shadow) for thousands of years and then He decided it was time to change things and bring the whole truth to a bunch of idol worshiping pagans.
Give me a break. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 4897
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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45degreeN & your both pretty much correct.
the bible debate is for anything that has to do with the bible.
But if you start a thread on homosexuality, please we do have a forum for that! 
Sense this one was started as homosexual. I can move it their! |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 502
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmike wrote: | | World history is replete with examples of cultures that lost sound sexual ethic. Because depravity always seeks lower ground (hell is never satisfied), pederasty always followed societal acceptance of homosexuality, and pederasty targets children in general, but boys exclusively. As a Libertarian, it rubs against my political leanings to censure homosexuals in any way, but the Spirit inside me says that we must do all we can to defend society against their metastisization. |
Pederasty is purely about satisfying the sex drive you know, not love.
| saintmike wrote: | | Sodom was destroyed, it's said, because of the outcry of their neighbors. Far from staying in their private corner and practicing tolerance, homosexual gangs were foraging the countryside oppressing people in the surrounding area. |
Where did you get this information? |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes do look out for the wandering homosexual gangs. Were they all dressed in black leather? |
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