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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So in other words, you see what you want to see & conclude what you want to conclude from this story. |
Evee, it's not hard to figure out, it's implicit in the text. Why are you fighting this? Show your cards.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 642
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| saintmike wrote: | | Evee, it's not hard to figure out, it's implicit in the text. Why are you fighting this? Show your cards. |
Isn't it obvious? I don't agree that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. I don't think homosexuality is a sin.
Like you, I also have done research on various items. This being one of them. I reviewed the passages that supposedly condemn homosexuality & I have not come to the same conclusions that others have.
Please answer the question of why people marry. Why won't you answer this question?
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Isn't it obvious? I don't agree that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. I don't think homosexuality is a sin.
Like you, I also have done research on various items. This being one of them. I reviewed the passages that supposedly condemn homosexuality & I have not come to the same conclusions that others have.
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And you think I'M deceived for praying to Mary? Who's deviating from Scripture now? The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality in the Old and New Testaments with unambiguous wording and you find a way to explain it all away.....and you have the nerve to accuse me of unbiblical beliefs?
I'm going to remember this...you no longer have the right to accuse me of unbiblical beliefs.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Seldom,
You see this post. Remember this the next time she accuses me of having "extra-biblical" beliefs.
And you can be sure of this. Having "extra-biblical" beliefs is better than outright denying what is clearly spelled out in Scripture.
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 642
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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So I take it then that you don't like to know the background of the cities that the Bible talks about & the audience to whom the letters are writing & what was going on at the time that the documents were written? All of this needs to be considered when studying biblical texts. Don't you agree?
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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i have yet to understand what she is saying exactly...
evee...how do you understand the text many use to say homosex is wrong?...
such as...rom 1 for example.... |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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TSS,
What do you mean you don't understand what she's saying? Can she be any more clear?
| Quote: | | Isn't it obvious? I don't agree that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. I don't think homosexuality is a sin. |
Why does the attack dog suddenly have his tail between his legs?
_________________
What a stunning rhetorical riposte, sir! I say, you've cut me to the quick! The incisive thrust of your logical cutlass has struck me to the bone! Alas, I fear the wound is fatal! O, untimely death! |
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Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 642
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Romans 1 -- This is the passage that you're talking about, TSS.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
If a person knows anything about sexuality, he/she knows that attraction for the same sex or the opposite sex comes at a very early age. It is as natural for a homosexual to be attracted to the same sex as it is for a heterosexual to be attracted to the opposite sex. I ask all those here -- did you have to consciously choose who you were attracted to when you noticed the opposite sex on the playground?
So up until this time (whenever that is) that Paul's talking about, everyone was heterosexual I suppose. What is the natural use of a woman? Vaginal? So that means that anytime a husband/wife have anal sex, they are in direct violation of God's commands.
_________________
Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you know everything God has to say b/c you've read the Bible. Remember, God is STILL speaking. And surprisingly, through people we DON'T expect. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Evee,
I do believe that the Bible does say that a wife's body belongs to the husband, and the husband's body belongs to the wife.
So, whatever they both decide to do to each other out of true love and true respect for each other... with both consenting, of course... is within their rights before God, I'd suggest.
But a married couple having anal sex, is nothing at all like a homosexual pair of men having it. ewww 
Please do not completely destroy my fantasies forever. 
_________________
Peace
The HeKkLeR |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: |
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james
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| towshab wrote: | | james wrote: | I have always seen the OT as a shadow of the NT as stated in Hebrews. Having said this in the OT only the Levitical men were allowed to do the priestly duties, not women. Yet what is their roll today in accord with the NT ?
(That is all I am saying seeing how I have never like the way my feet taste.) |
Yes, YHVH decided to purposely keep people in the dark (shadow) for thousands of years and then He decided it was time to change things and bring the whole truth to a bunch of idol worshiping pagans.
Give me a break. |
Just what exactly is meant by this response, and please use scripture if you have a point to make. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6096
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | history warns us of the startling truth that homosexual activity in society should be given as little berth as possible. Sodom was destroyed, it's said, because of the outcry of their neighbors. Far from staying in their private corner and practicing tolerance, homosexual gangs were foraging the countryside oppressing people in the surrounding area. |
Scriptural justification for this statement? Particularly the last sentence?
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | World history is replete with examples of cultures that lost sound sexual ethic. |
You mean like the Greeks, or at least how you'd define them? From which Western culture as a whole is almost entirely derived?
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | Because depravity always seeks lower ground (hell is never satisfied), pederasty always followed societal acceptance of homosexuality, and pederasty targets children in general, but boys exclusively. |
Why hey there mister slippery slope, it's only been a few days since the last time I saw you.
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | The angels told Lot that God would destroy the cities because of the outcry of their neighbors. |
Do please explain how this justifies your out-of-nowhere assertion of homosexual gangs roving the countryside.
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | Like other Bible scholars, I'm simply putting two and two together in a simply syllogism. |
"Making things up for Jesus." Got it.
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | The angels said that S&G caused an outcry from their neighbors |
I'd imagine that the cities around Detroit aren't too happy about its crime rate.
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | and homosexual gangs roamed the cities hoping to sodomize tha angels |
Again, scriptural justification? Because it happened once they were actively seeking it out in other cities?
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | so I naturally conclude that it's these same gangs that are oppressing their neighbors. |
"Making things up."
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | But if there be any doubt as to which reason was first and foremost, I think St. Jude would be the tie-breaker: | Quote: | | 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. |
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It's not fornication if you're married.
| saintmichaeldefendthem wrote: | | The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality in the Old and New Testaments with unambiguous wording |
In English translations. Once you look at the original languages involved and the historical context you'll notice that it is far from unambiguous condemnation of homosexuality.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2280
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Now, that's the spirit, james!!! 
_________________
Peace
The HeKkLeR |
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james
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the compliment HeKkler, but I have to be careful, my head swells easily.  And don't you hesitate to deflated me every now and then too.  |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Evee wrote: |
....
Pederasty is purely about satisfying the sex drive you know, not love.
...... |
Hi Evee,
Pederasty, fornication and etc is im-purely about satisfying the sex drive in Love of having sex OUT OF Hate for having no sex.
As with all other addictions,
the real addiction and cause of all other bad habits is not to the Love of what is done,
but is to Hate for what is not done or is undone.
It is not as much a pull to Love as it is a BIG PUSH away from what is hated!
God made us all to need one thing: Love.
So when people hate themselves as having no sex,
they then have to have sex to love themselves.
So more sex means more Love to them.
Of course, the kickback is that that sex makes them into what they also hate themselves as!
So the vicious cycle continues.
Examples:
Addiction to sweets [diabetes]is caused by hatred of self as bitter.
Addiction to money [greed] is caused by hatred of self as poor.
Addiction [add/adhd] to attention is caused by hatred of self as unattended.
Addction to power is caused by Hate of self as weak or impotent.
Addiction to whatever is caused by Hate of self as the opposite of what the person is addicted to.
See the pattern?
Lust is desire for anything or anyone out of Hate for what or for who is undesired or unwanted.
Vanity is Love of self as pretty out of Hate for self as ugly.
Here is how God describes the problem:
1 Timothy 6:
10For the love of money is the root of all evil:
which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
God's Solution:
Philippians 4:
11Not that I speak in respect of want:
for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am,
therewith to be content.
12I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound:
every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Hope that helps.
with Love for who and for what is wanted and unwanted,
Mt 5:43-48,
so that we love not only what wants we've got or that we get, but we also love ---not getting what we want,
atoz
Bonus:
"Soak Up The Sun"
by
SHERYL CROW
My friend the communist
Holds meetings in his RV
I can't afford his gas
So I'm stuck here watching TV
I don't have digital
I don't have diddly squat
It's not having what you want
It's wanting what you've got
[CHORUS:]
I'm gonna soak up the sun
Gonna tell everyone
To lighten up (I'm gonna tell 'em that)
I've got no one to blame
For every time I feel lame
I'm looking up o I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna soak up the sun
I've got a crummy job
It don't pay near enough
To buy the things it takes
To win me some of your love
Every time I turn around
I'm looking up, you're looking down
Maybe something's wrong with you
That makes you act the way you do
Maybe i am crazy too
[CHORUS]
I'm gonna soak up the sun
While it's still free
I'm gonna soak up the sun
Before it goes out on me
Don't have no master suite
I'm still the king of me
You have a fancy ride, but baby
I'm the one who has the key
Every time I turn around
I'm looking up, you're looking down
Maybe something's wrong with you
That makes you act the way you do
Maybe I am crazy too
[CHORUS]
I'm gonna soak up the sun
Got my 45 on
So I can rock on. |
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