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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 12:34 pm Post subject: to clarify |
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| Quote: | | Here are the facts. RevJp advocated a postion that said because the soul does not join the human until birth, it did not violate God's command against killing to abort pre-born babies. I said that position was without merit. |
To be clear: I said that I beleve the qualification for murder is the ensoulment of the person - hense killing non-ensouled beings does not SPIRITUALLY and SCRIPTURALLY constitute murder. I said that I believe that ensoulment occurs at BIRTH, not conception. Thus, abortion does not constitute murder SPIRITUALLY and SCRIPTURALLY.
For futher clarification: | Quote: | | ...God's command against killing to abort pre-born babies |
There is no such commandment, there is an extrapolation and connection of commandments and philosophy's, and I never said they were wrong, I questioned if they were scripturally supported.
and Finally:
Van, you can say and do, and justify anything you want. I am done with this discussion. As I said in another thread; I have spoken to my Lord, sought His forgiveness for my sins of pride, anger, and indignation while on this board. I have sought forgiveness from those here whom I have offended. The matter is done as far as I am concerned - my heart is right with the Lord, anyone else's state of heart and peace of mind is out of my hands.
Because of this:
15But if your brother is being pained or his feelings hurt or if he is being injured by what you eat, [then] you are no longer walking in love. [You have ceased to be living and conducting yourself by the standard of love toward him.] Do not let what you eat hurt or cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died!
This shall be my guidance for my activity on this site from now on:
19So let us then definitely aim for and eagerly pursue what makes for harmony and for mutual upbuilding (edification and development) of one another.
20You must not, for the sake of food, undo and break down and destroy the work of God! Everything is indeed [ceremonially] clean and pure, but it is wrong for anyone to hurt the conscience of others or to make them fall by what he eats.
21The right thing is to eat no meat or drink no wine [at all], or [do anything else] if it makes your brother stumble or hurts his conscience or offends or weakens him.
22Your personal convictions [on such matters]--exercise [them] as in God's presence, keeping them to yourself [striving only to know the truth and obey His will]. Blessed (happy, [1] to be envied) is he who has no reason to judge himself for what he approves [who does not convict himself by what he chooses to do].
May God bless you and keep you. |
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Van
King Kong
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 2646
Location: San Clemente, California
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 1:04 pm Post subject: Thankyou |
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| Thanks for the prayer, pointed in my direction. To repeat what I have said before, I am just as if not more imperfect as anyone else. Keep asking thoughtful questions, even if some of them may be based on false premises. That is how we all learn. |
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Dshadna
German Shepherd
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Van, put it any way you wish. No matter what you say or do, it doesn't justify the fact that you are using your faith to slander people. You can look at it in all the self-rightousness that you wish.
My saying your arrogance outweighs your rudeness is a statement of observation. Just as you keep telling me with your slander of me
Continue on Van, keep thinking you are the martyr for a cause. If it makes you feel so much better to be holier than thou, I shall not be the one to stop you. God can do that on his own. |
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Dshadna
German Shepherd
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 2:05 pm Post subject: I'm Done!! |
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| Quote: | | Van, you can say and do, and justify anything you want. I am done with this discussion. As I said in another thread; I have spoken to my Lord, sought His forgiveness for my sins of pride, anger, and indignation while on this board. I have sought forgiveness from those here whom I have offended. The matter is done as far as I am concerned - my heart is right with the Lord, anyone else's state of heart and peace of mind is out of my hands. |
Rev, I too am done, not only with this topic, this thread, but this forum.
Thanks to general concensus that rudeness, arrogance, back-biting, insulting are to be commended here, I no longer feel that this is a place where I can grow spiritually or otherwise. The fact that some consider this to be Christlike is very worrisome to me, and I don't believe that it is Scriptural for those who continue to do so, regardless of Biblical proof that shows this is not God's way.
As Nobby said elsewhere on this forum...we can find whatever verses we want in the Bible to support our view and belief, and this forum has shown ample proof of how sadly true his statement was.
I have no desire to go to a place where I'm constantly under attack for viewing something different from others, in the way that MY CHRIST has shown me for my life. You don't have to agree with me, you don't have to like me, I only ever asked that you respect my point of view, and only a very small handful have done so. Thank you Fake, RevJp and Ron in partiuclar. I've not always agreed with the three of you, but you've never used condemnation and the Bible as a weapon against me, or used it to justify your actions. For that I'm grateful. I know there are a handful of others also, but I can't pinpoint ya'll as quickly, so don't think I've left you out, I'm grateful for all those who showed me Christ's true compassion and love in the face of differences.
As RevJp put it elsewhere:
| Quote: | When Dshadna tells you it is her firm belief that God made her how she is and she believes it is His will in her life to live as a Christian, and be gay, and He has shown her scriptural evidence that tells her that her homosexuality is not a sin, but in fact is part of His plan for her life, then we no longer have a need to berate her about what WE believe or do not believe is right.
Our job as Christians at this point is to pray for her, pray for ourselves, tht God will show both of us His will, His design for us. Perhaps she is believing incorrectly, perhaps WE are, but the continued debate over the right or wrong of it. The continued insults, rebukes, attacks, etc. are NOT part of God's plan, no matter what face you put on it. When the assertions become so strong on both sides it has become a matter of pride and a battle of wills ~ OUR wills, NOT God's.
We may not be required to be tolerant of sin, but we certainly are admonished not to judge, to be *compassionate, and to be righteous, not self-righteous. |
I will continue to use the Bible as the definitive answer on all matters, and not man's view on it. I will continue to allow God to show me what He considers my sins to be, not man.
Romans14:22Your personal convictions [on such matters]--exercise [them] as in God's presence, keeping them to yourself [striving only to know the truth and obey His will]. Blessed (happy, [1] to be envied) is he who has no reason to judge himself for what he approves [who does not convict himself by what he chooses to do |
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Van
King Kong
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 2646
Location: San Clemente, California
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 2:54 pm Post subject: Goodbye |
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| Goodbye and may you find wisdom and truth as you humble yourself before your Lord, returning good for evil, with malice toward none. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6840
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 5:15 pm Post subject: Don't leave |
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You should not leave this forum, or board. Take into your heart the last verse you quoted:
| Quote: | | Romans14:22Your personal convictions [on such matters]--exercise [them] as in God's presence, keeping them to yourself [striving only to know the truth and obey His will]. Blessed (happy, [1] to be envied) is he who has no reason to judge himself for what he approves [who does not convict himself by what he chooses to do |
Keep your views of homosexuality to yourself unless called upon to express them.
No offense meant to you, however, if you look at all of your posts, the majority of them refocus themselves on your POV regarding the spiritual rightness of homosexuality. Change your voice, you have much to offer on all other topics and discussions.
Romans tells you to keep those views to yourself, it doesn't tell you to leave and let those who shout louder rule the day. You have an obligation to speak the truth as God shows it to you, and to speak up when you see that those around you are speaking falsely.
I may be done fighting with Van and Cpt Veg and other regarding issues to which there is no acceptable compromise, but I am not running away and leaving what I consider a valuable tool for Christianity to the hands of whoever may come and spread false doctrine and sully the Gospel with erroneous views. I will pick my battles more wisely and conduct myself with love though.
Stay and fight the good fight. |
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