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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:01 am Post subject: |
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The resurrected will be spirit because 1 Corinthians 15:45 says "the last Adam was a life giving SPIRIT" as "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" according to 1 Corinthians 15:50. In reality, Jesus denied to be a spirit; to be resurrected because Jesus said after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" in Luke 24:39 and Jesus was flesh and blood because Jesus asking food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus body was mortal; therefore, flesh and blood.
All your claims were refuted, but you were not able to refute
You are talking opposite to what you are reading. The Bible tells the resurrected will be a spirit and you are telling me the resurrected will be flesh and blood. amazing. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | The resurrected will be spirit because 1 Corinthians 15:45 says "the last Adam was a life giving SPIRIT" as "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" according to 1 Corinthians 15:50. In reality, Jesus denied to be a spirit; to be resurrected because Jesus said after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" in Luke 24:39 and Jesus was flesh and blood because Jesus asking food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus body was mortal; therefore, flesh and blood.
All your claims were refuted, but you were not able to refute |
Ok. So you refuse to read what scripture states to state whatever you want to state, even though scripture shows you as being wrong. Ok.
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | You are talking opposite to what you are reading. The Bible tells the resurrected will be a spirit and you are telling me the resurrected will be flesh and blood. amazing. |
Ok. Let us make this very easy. Quote me where I ever said that the resurrected will be flesh and blood.
If you cannot quote it, then chalk it up to yet another, even worse lie.  |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:54 am Post subject: |
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You are really talking opposite to what you are reading. Jesus says after he rose "a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" proving that he was not equal unto angels, which are spirits according to Hebrews 1:14, therefore, Jesus was not resurrected because the resurrected will be equal unto angels. However, from your writing so far, you are telling Jesus after he rose was resurrected but still natural contradicting 1 Corinthains 15:44 ,45, and 50 "it is sown a natural body and it is raised a spiritual body. And so it is written "the first Adam was a living being and the last Adam was a life giving spirit" because "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God."
The Bible says Jesus was a spirit since resurrected while you are telling us Jesus was flesh and blood because Jesus asking for food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food because his body was still flesh and blood. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | The Bible says Jesus was a spirit since resurrected while you are telling us Jesus was flesh and blood because Jesus asking for food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food because his body was still flesh and blood. |
| Quote: | Ok. Let us make this very easy. Quote me where I ever said that the resurrected will be flesh and blood.
If you cannot quote it, then chalk it up to yet another, even worse lie. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | proving that he was not equal unto angels, |
Of course He was not equal to the angels. I provided scripture to you wayyy early in this thread which says that He has authority over the angels. And I gave you that scripture at least 3 times, I'm sure.
Should I quote it again for you?
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The proof of the resurrection is being equal unto angels as Jesus said in Luke 20:36 "Neither they can die any more for they are equal unto angels." After Jesus had risen, Jesus was not equal unto angels since Jesus said "For a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have" in Luke 24:36. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | The proof of the resurrection is being equal unto angels as Jesus said in Luke 20:36 "Neither they can die any more for they are equal unto angels." After Jesus had risen, Jesus was not equal unto angels since Jesus said "For a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have" in Luke 24:36. |
Luke 20:35-36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Jesus is speaking of those that He resurrects. For Jesus is above the angels, since everything is put under His feet. I showed you scripture that He has authority over the angels.
Your arguments are more and more bizzare. 
Who is it that is standing over your shoulder goading you to continue fighting a lost argument? Is it the same one that duped you into debating in the first place? |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Dear Brother,
You saying "Jesus is speaking of those that He resurrects" is true and at the time it applies to the resurrected because 1 Corinthians 15:52 says "the raised will be imperishable" and in order to be imperishable, it needs to be without flesh and blood as 1 Corinthians 15:45 says "Flesh and cannot inherit the Kingdom of God." Therefore, 1 Corinthians says "the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit" after he rose 2 Corinthians 4:18 say "Whatever is unseen lasts for ever." Therefore, the resurrected according to Paul and Jesus will be a spirit. However, Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have" in Luke 24:39 proves Jesus was neither spirit nor equal unto angel; therefore, Jesus was not resurrected.
You saying "For Jesus is above the angels" is wrong because Jesus was made a little lower than angels according to Hebrews 2:9 and refuted also by knowing that Jesus-was-taken according to John 20:2 proves Jesus was weak ; therefore, not resurrected because the resurrected will be raised in power according to 1 Corinthians 15:43 "It is raised in power." |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | Therefore, 1 Corinthians says "the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit" after he rose |
Again, the scripture does not say that. Jesus was a life-giving spirit from birth on. I gave you scripture for that. Will you address the points that I presented?
As long as you keep only saying the same stupid thing, and not addressing the scripture that I give to refute that stupid thing that you say, this debate will only keep going in circles.
Here is more scripture for you, and I pray that you begin addressing the scripture that I show you that refutes your claims:
John 6:27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
| Quote: | | You saying "For Jesus is above the angels" is wrong because Jesus was made a little lower than angels according to Hebrews 2:9 |
Hebrews 2:7-10Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Jesus was made a little lower than the angels so that He may taste death for all those who believe. Angels can not die. When He was resurrected, He was crowned with glory, as scripture states.
1 Peter 3:22
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him.
Last edited by HeKkLeR on Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| HeKkLeR wrote: | | Abdulhakeem wrote: | | The Bible says Jesus was a spirit since resurrected while you are telling us Jesus was flesh and blood because Jesus asking for food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food because his body was still flesh and blood. |
| Quote: | Ok. Let us make this very easy. Quote me where I ever said that the resurrected will be flesh and blood.
If you cannot quote it, then chalk it up to yet another, even worse lie. |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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You saying "The Again, the scripture does not say that (, 1 Corinthians says "the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit" after he rose)" hits you back because at nowhere Jesus said "I was resurrected" after he rose. As I said, 1 Corinthians 15:45 explains 1 Corinthians 15:44 as can be seen from the connecting phrase "And so it is written" at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 right after 1 Corinthians 15:44 proving 1 Corinthians 15:45 is to explain 1 Corinthians 15:44.
The example of the physical body in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is the first Adam, was a living soul in 1 Corinthians 15:45. Therefore, the living soul requires food and drink to survive. The example of the resurrected body, which is spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:44, is the last Adam, was a spirit in 1 Corinthians 15:45.
To Contrary, Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" proves Jesus was not spirit nor spiritual; therefore, Jesus was not resurrected because the resurrected will be a spirit.
You saying "Jesus was a life-giving spirit from birth on" is refuted by Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" proving Jesus was not spirit according to Luke 24:39.
You saying "Jesus was made a little lower than the angels so that He may taste death for all those who believe. Angels can not die" is refuted for two reasons;
1) According to Psalm 148:1-5, angels are created and had a beginning; therefore, they are subject to death because that has beginning must die like you and I.
2) Jesus continued to be lower than angles as Jesus said "For a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have" proving he was not a spirit nor equal unto angels, which are spirits according to Hebrews 1:14.
Your saying "Quote me where I ever said that the resurrected will be flesh and blood" is wrong because I never said you said "the resurrected will be flesh and blood."
What I said was the following " The Bible says Jesus was a spirit since resurrected while you are telling us Jesus was flesh and blood because Jesus asking for food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food because his body was still flesh and blood."
Then I went on to prove my case with saying " Jesus says after he rose "a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" proving that he was not equal unto angels, which are spirits according to Hebrews 1:14, therefore, Jesus was not resurrected because the resurrected will be equal unto angels. However, from your writing so far, you are telling Jesus after he rose was resurrected but still natural contradicting 1 Corinthians 15:44 ,45, and 50 "it is sown a natural body and it is raised a spiritual body. And so it is written "the first Adam was a living being and the last Adam was a life giving spirit" because "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God."
You saying "That is surely another lie, is it not? Can you show me scripture where it states that Jesus needed food to sustain His body?" is refuted by asking you where did Jesus say "I am resurrected"?
Jesus eating after he appeared first time with the disciples in John 21:5,10,12 proves Jesus continued to have a natural body ; therefore, Jesus was not resurrected according to 1 Corinthians 15:44 "They are natural bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies."
Jesus asking for food in John 21:5 after he had proved to them that he was physical in Luke 24 proving again that he needed food. |
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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That entire last post of yours was plain stupid, immature, revealed more lies from you and... well... just dumb.
In regards to plain stupid:
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | As I said, 1 Corinthians 15:45 explains 1 Corinthians 15:44 as can be seen from the connecting phrase "And so it is written" at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 15:45 right after 1 Corinthians 15:44 proving 1 Corinthians 15:45 is to explain 1 Corinthians 15:44. |
This stupidity has been refuted, already:
| HeKkLeR wrote: | | Wrong. Why would Paul state "And so it is written" about what he just wrote? When Paul used the phrase "And so it is written", he was referring to as it is written in Scripture. Just as I have shown you what Scripture states about it, above. |
In regards to immature:
| Abdulhakem wrote: | The example of the physical body in 1 Corinthians 15:44 is the first Adam, was a living soul in 1 Corinthians 15:45. Therefore, the living soul requires food and drink to survive. The example of the resurrected body, which is spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:44, is the last Adam, was a spirit in 1 Corinthians 15:45.
To Contrary, Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" proves Jesus was not spirit nor spiritual; therefore, Jesus was not resurrected because the resurrected will be a spirit.
You saying "Jesus was a life-giving spirit from birth on" is refuted by Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bone as you see me have" proving Jesus was not spirit according to Luke 24:39. |
All of this garbage written above has been refuted since page 1 of this thread. 
In regards to revealed more lies:
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | Your saying "Quote me where I ever said that the resurrected will be flesh and blood" is wrong because I never said you said "the resurrected will be flesh and blood." |
You must honestly be the most terrible liar that I have ever met. You do not even try to cover your pathetic lies by editing the evidence out. Here is exactly the proof of your lies:
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | You are talking opposite to what you are reading. The Bible tells the resurrected will be a spirit and you are telling me the resurrected will be flesh and blood. amazing. |
And here:
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | | The Bible says Jesus was a spirit since resurrected while you are telling us Jesus was flesh and blood because Jesus asking for food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus needed food because his body was still flesh and blood. |
And in regards to just dumb:
| Abdulhakeem wrote: | Jesus eating after he appeared first time with the disciples in John 21:5,10,12 proves Jesus continued to have a natural body ; therefore, Jesus was not resurrected according to 1 Corinthians 15:44 "They are natural bodies now, but when they are raised, they will be spiritual bodies."
Jesus asking for food in John 21:5 after he had proved to them that he was physical in Luke 24 proving again that he needed food. |
So, you are saying that the Lord was not the Lord in Genesis 18??
Genesis 18:1-8And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
And again, you are saying that the two angels in Genesis 19 are not two angels?
Genesis 19:1-3And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
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HeKkLeR
King Kong
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 2277
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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You know, Abdul... if you came here to debate with a follower of Christ in the hopes of upsetting his wisdom... then I am sure that you took up the offer to debate with the wrong follower of Christ.
I have much patience with you... partly because I know that you really know... and really knew... that there was no way that you could win such a debate. I am not talking about your hopes to impress others that share your own religious beliefs... but I am talking about what you knew.
I have patience with you because I know that you let yourself be deceived.
But... my patience is running thin with each silly post that you write exclaiming the same silly lies and deceit.
Let me show you what I mean:
| Biblegateway.com Passage Results wrote: | 1 Corinthians 15:45 (Amplified Bible)
45 Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]. (A)
Cross references:
1 Corinthians 15:45 : Gen 2:7 |
So, this entire time when I have been explaining to you that the 1 Corinthians 15:45 verse where Paul states "As it is written", is not pertaining to what he had just written in verse 44, but to what scripture states in Genesis 2:7, and what scripture states about Jesus Christ (which, as I just decided to go through the list of bible versions, I noticed that some of those versions have footnotes showing the same exact verses that I showed you as proof listed under their footnotes : New American Standard Bible, English Standard Version).
... you have known that I was correct. It said the same thing in the footnote in the Amplified Bible that you used to get the verse from.
Now, that is just down right low deceit. If you were a Christian, I'd be ashamed of your false actions. But you're not a Christian... so I just thank God that I am... and praise the Lord that I do not have to go to such low levels to deny the truth.
Ok... carry on... and bring it on...  |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Brother,
Let's test Jesus supposed resurrection against the test that Jesus gave himself in Luke 20:36 "Neither they can die anymore for they are equal unto angels."
In reality, Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have" according to Luke 24:39 proves Jesus was not equal unto angels, which are spirits according to Hebrews 1:14. Therefore, Jesus was not resurrected.
You saying "So, this entire time when I have been explaining to you that the 1 Corinthians 15:45 verse where Paul states "As it is written", is not pertaining to what he had just written in verse 44, but to what scripture states in Genesis 2:7" is not fully correct because the second half of 1 Corinthians 15:45 does not pertain to what scriptures states in Genesis 2:7. Also, 1 Corinthians 14:45 explains 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 15:44 because 1 Corinthians 15:45 explains the resurrected nature according to 1 Corinthians 15:45 (Amplified Bible) "45 Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]." In any case, the resurrected will be spirit at least to 1 Corinthians 15:50 because it says "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God." However, Jesus after he rose was not a spirit. Rather, Jesus after he rose was flesh and blood as Jesus seeking food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus was still flesh and blood.
I never said the Lord was not the Lord in Genesis 18 and the two angels in Genesis 19 are not two angels. |
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Abdulhakeem
Little Hamster
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Brother,
Let's test Jesus supposed resurrection against the test that Jesus gave himself in Luke 20:36 "Neither they can die anymore for they are equal unto angels."
So the test: WAS JESUS EQUAL UNTO ANGELS AFTER HE ROSE? IF SO, PROVE IT.
In reality, Jesus saying after he rose "For a spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have" according to Luke 24:39 proves Jesus was not equal unto angels, which are spirits according to Hebrews 1:14. Therefore, Jesus was not resurrected.
You saying "So, this entire time when I have been explaining to you that the 1 Corinthians 15:45 verse where Paul states "As it is written", is not pertaining to what he had just written in verse 44, but to what scripture states in Genesis 2:7" is not fully correct because the second half of 1 Corinthians 15:45 does not pertain to what scriptures states in Genesis 2:7. Also, 1 Corinthians 14:45 explains 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 15:44 because 1 Corinthians 15:45 explains the resurrected nature according to 1 Corinthians 15:45 (Amplified Bible) "45 Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]." In any case, the resurrected will be spirit at least to 1 Corinthians 15:50 because it says "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God." However, Jesus after he rose was not a spirit. Rather, Jesus after he rose was flesh and blood as Jesus seeking food after he rose in Luke 24:41 and John 21:5 proves Jesus was still flesh and blood.
I never said the Lord was not the Lord in Genesis 18 and the two angels in Genesis 19 are not two angels. |
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