A Moslem in the discussion

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

please explain how converting to be a jew causes this...

Abdelaleem · Big Goldfish Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 66

No harm as I said that you know the answer.
I tried to give you a near example but you didn't accept that.
We believe that the Islam is the absolute true religion. it's God's law when someone converts from Islam he should be :-
First : discussed and try solve his confusion
Second if he insists he should be punished.
by any mean the government should do that but not individuals and it's applied in Countries that apply the Islamic laws.
criticize it as you wish . I'm not shy from my religion and the laws as I believe it's God's laws.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

really?...far out...GOD's law says to kill all who disagree with abdel?...

Abdelaleem · Big Goldfish Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 66

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

ok abdel..i must say if what you say is true..that makes more sense...which makes me ask...

so why can't the god of the moslims do his own killing if he wants someone dead?...(please skip the o.t. and the hebrews killing people cause GOD told them too...as we both know CHRISTians believe this is a new era...and new covenant)...i mean...even the leading jews themselves of the apostles day started to realize this...

see?...

acts 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

so once again...

so why can't the god of the moslims do his own killing if he wants someone dead?...

Abdelaleem · Big Goldfish Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 66

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Hi Abdelaleem
Welcome to the forum Smile

Abdelaleem · Big Goldfish Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 66

Hi Steven3,
I'm totally impressed that there are many unitarians.
Allah told us in Quran that the original Christianity was unitarian and they believe in one God . there is no unitarians in the middle east.
So, I asked myself the Quran is from God but where are these unitarian now. Did the disappear?
but now I notice that there much unitarian than I expected.
I'm really happy .
Do you know that unitarian is very close Islam?
we can start a post to compare and relate Unitarian to Islam.
Regards

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

Hi Abdelaleem Smile

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

sorry nobby...i know this isn't a debate forum...though i would like for abdel to give an honest and real answer to the question i asked...

if however...that is too much to ask from one who claims the real truth...i will relent....

Abdelaleem · Big Goldfish Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 66

Theseldomscene,
Your post is very Provocative. I wrote a reply on the same level but my wife remind me with the following verse
16:[125] Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

So, I’ll follow Allah guidance for preaching.
There is no relationship between suicide bombers and applying the laws of God. It’s not the Islamic way to apply laws of Allah. Let us keep the suicide bombers issue out of religion discussion it’s in the political discussion . OK
Regarding your question
“so why can't the god of the moslims do his own killing if he wants someone dead?”
In the story of Dawud Leader of Israelis when he defeated the king of others Jalut .
Allah said
2:[251] By Allah's will they routed them: and Dawud slew Jalut: and Allah gave him Power and Wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. [red] And did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief: [/red] but Allah is full of bounty to all the worlds.
This is always answer “And did not Allah check one set of people by means of another,”
Allah puts his commandments and laws and watches how we’ll do with it. How abide to we’re. Allah can do anything just as he said
2:[117] To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: when He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.
When Gabriel said to Miriam you’ll have a son
3:[47] She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a Plan, He but saith to it, `Be', and it is!
Finaly, Allah said
16:[40] For to anything which We have willed, We but say the Word, "Be", and it is.
He can do everything but he wants to test us.
Sometimes he does without influence when one looses the hope and there is nothing can be done. Exactly as he did with miracles to profits.
[/b]

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

see?...that wasn't so hard was it?...i knew you could do it if you tried.... Very Happy

...i think the poetic sound of your verse quoted is beautiful btw....

but in all honesty...it seems to me, by what you say, that the god of the moslims is no different than the gods of stone and wood who are in fact...no gods at all...and cannot even move themselves from one spot to another and must be carried about and cared for....if that was not so...then i would think the god of the moslims would be capable of taking care of himself and not ask others to do his dirty work...to test them....

the bible says murder is evil...and our GOD(the true FATHER according to the bible) does not tempt us with evil for HE cannot be tempted by evil...

so the idea of GOD telling us to kill another and wishing for us to carry it out simply because they wish to believe differently and convert ot another religion is insane to me and not at all in accordance with the teachings of JESUS for when HE said whoever wishes to be saved must eat HIS flesh and drink HIS blood...many of HIS disciples left off following HIM(john6:32-66)....but HE gave no order to kill them for it...

also please meditate on this magnificant truth that can turn you from darkness to light friend...

1 tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

also... just so you know friend...you said...

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

ps...

see?...here...check this out...the one and only true GOD, who is the GOD of the CHRIST followers does HIS own killing....

acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

HE doesn't ask us to do it for HIM...HE doesn't have to be defended...HE can defend HIMself and HIS church....unlike the false gods of wood, stone and imagination...

Abdelaleem · Big Goldfish Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Posts: 66