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| Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? Why or why not? |
| Yes, I believe in the Trinity (and this is why..) |
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| No, I don't believe in the Trinity (and here's why) |
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luvnlife
Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 933
Location: US
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 Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: Trinity: Biblically supported?? I say NO WAY!!! |
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I believe in God. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe in the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost. I do not, however, believe that they are all 3 Gods represented by one Godhead. I believe they are separate entities/spirits/beings: One is God, one is Lord & Christ appointed by His Father to rule over us in many capacities and the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God that we all have but it's up to us whether to nourish that spirit or let it wither and die in us.
If you want to know why I don't believe in the Trinity or if you do believe and are interested in finding out the truth, I challenge you to take a few minutes to look up the following scriptures:
Matt 3:16, 17
Matt 12:50
Matt 13:41-43
Matt 15:13
Matt 16: 15-17 & 27
Matt 18:14 & 35
Matt 19: 17 & 26
Matt 20:23
Matt 21:12 & 33-39
Matt 22:1-14 & 31,32
Matt 23: 8-10
Matt 25: 34
Matt 26: 29
Mark 1: 11 & 14
Mark 3:35
Mark 4: 11, 26, 30
Mark 11: 22-26
Mark 12: 24-30 & 34
Mark 15: 34
Luke 3:38
Luke 9: 20 & 48
Luke 10:16
Luke 12: 8
Luke 18: 18-19
John 1: 18, 29, 34
John 2:16
John 3:16
John 5: 19-24 & 42-44
John 6:37-40 & 57 & 65
John 7:16, 28, 29
John 8: 14-19
I kind of stopped here because I know there is more but this is overwhelming evidence that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost all exist but are separate and distinct spirits/beings.
Love, Luv
Last edited by luvnlife on Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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luvnlife
Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 933
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I decided to make this a polled question. After reading all of the scriptures stated in the original post on this thread, I really want to know why many churches and individuals do or do not believe in the Trinity.
Help me out, will ya?
Thanks,
Luv  |
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bitterlily
Big Pit Bull
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 398
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| luvnlife wrote: | I decided to make this a polled question. After reading all of the scriptures stated in the original post on this thread, I really want to know why many churches and individuals do or do not believe in the Trinity.
Help me out, will ya?
Thanks,
Luv |
Sure Luv,
I don't think I can do a better job then the post I wrote previously on the Trinity so hope you don't mind that I have copied the original and posted it here.
INTRODUCTION
I, like many other christians have battled with the confusion caused by the trinity doctrine but that battle for me is over and my hope is that after reading this yours will be too. My stance is that the trinity is man’s mistranslation and misunderstanding of the scriptures, a tradition of man. When I first came to the Lord Jesus 7 years ago, without thought or hesitation I prayed to Jesus. No one, no person, no entity or spirit existed for me but Jesus. A few months later by the help of a lovely Jehovah’s witness couple I was thrown into utter confusion. Their claim was that by praying to Jesus I was by-passing Jehovah and therefore greatly offending God! I was horrified! Was this true? I mean Jesus was answering my every prayer in such minute detail that a child could understand, but it didn’t stop me from asking myself whether I was guilty of their charges and leaving someone very important out of the picture. I was raised Catholic so the trinity was very familiar to me. I have vivid memories of staring up at Jesus on the cross while I pictured a very unhappy Father God sitting up in heaven somewhere. These 2 persons of the trinity, in my childish mind had absolutely nothing in common, the Father being full of Wrath and ready to destroy us while the loving and compassionate Jesus was holding back his Father’s hand. I have to admit, my Catholic upbringing had made me terrified of the Father. But the love that Jesus poured in to my heart and life on the day of his visitation was so breath-taking that the fear of living without him was greater than my fear of the Father! With much trembling I made the decision to face my fear, the Father, by opening my Bible and reading it for the first time.
I can not proclaim it enough, “Jesus Is The Father, Jesus Is The Father!!!
The ironic thing is that I was given this revelation just last year when I was visited by another Jehovah’s Witness couple.
Jesus Body Is The Temple of God
Now think about this for a moment. The Tabernacle in the wilderness and Solomon’s Temple in the OT were pictures or metaphors of the body of JESUS! Does anyone disagree with that statement?
If not, let’s continue.
Who dwelt in the OT Tabernacle and later the Temple? Was it not God (The Father, Spirit Of God, Jehovah, Shekinah Glory to get technical, etc..)?
Note: Holy of Holies in the physical temple was found empty after the veil was rent. Which leads us to our next question?
Who dwelt in the NT Living Temple (made without hands) and named Jesus? Was it not God (The Father, Spirit Of God, Jehovah, etc..)?
Yes it was! Most christians (myself included) have overlooked the significance of what Jesus said to the Pharisees:
“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” John 2:19
What temple was he talking about here?
…he spoke of the temple of his body. John 2:21
To suggest that the Father dwells apart from Jesus as a separate person or entity (as the trinity does) instead of dwelling IN Jesus as he proclaimed in many scriptures, is to suggest that Jesus’ Temple (body) was left Desolate (empty of the Spirit of God) like the OT Temples that preceeded him. If you believe that than it’s understandable that you might have a problem praying to an empty Temple. But Jesus is not Empty, he is filled to the fullest with the Spirit Of God (The Father) as this verse clearly states:
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:8-9
Did you hear that?
Jesus is not a part of the Godhead as the Trinity Doctrine teaches! The WHOLE Godhead dwells IN JESUS! If you didn’t catch that point, read the verse again.
Now Let’s move on to another important subject.
The Father’s Name. What Is It?
I hope you will agree that we have established that God (The Father) is currently and will eternally be dwelling in His Temple (The Son).
So we need to ask the question: Does the Spirit living in the Temple have the same name or a different name from the Temple (Jesus) itself?
This can be easily answered by the following scriptures:
Jesus said:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost Mat 28:19
I have heard preachers quote this very verse during baptism (as do many christians during prayer), yet they fail to mention a name. It looks as though these modern preachers had a different understanding of this verse than the Apostle Peter who said:
… "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Act 2:38
Was Peter wrong to say: “in the name of Jesus Christ”? Did he misunderstand what Jesus instructed him to say? I DOUBT IT! Another important point to mention here while comparing these 2 verses is that Peter’s statement is claiming that Jesus Christ is the name of the Father, Son AND HOLY SPIRIT!
This shouldn’t be a shock to anyone because Jesus said himself:
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name…Joh 14:26
Thus confirming the point made above that:
…in him (Christ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:8-9
I am sure you have read the following verses as much as I have yet the reality of Jesus’ words have often failed to sink in. Let’s read them again and see if you can hear them now as I do.
I am come in my Father's name…Joh 5:43
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Act 4:10-12
What Power Does The Temple Have Anyway?
Absolute Power as you will see.
Can we expect our prayers to be heard and answered when they are directed toward the Temple? According to Jesus we certainly can:
And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. Mat 23:21.
If this be the case with making an oath, how much more is this true of prayer and worship. Many examples are given to us from the scriptures, of people who prayed to and worshipped Jesus, the physical temple of God, in words and in deeds. Yes! IN DEEDS. For example the woman in Matthew 9:20-21 worshipped the living temple in her deeds:
And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment: For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole. Mat 9:20-21
So it is also true that they who touch the garment of Jesus (mingled with faith) also touch Him that dwells therein.
Also note that the temple (Jesus) was unsure of who touched him, but the indwelling Father knew and healed her immediately. Jesus just felt the power go out from his body as stated in Luke 8:45-46:
… And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me. Luk 8:45-46
This was actually the fulfilment of part of Solomon’s prayer in 1 Kings 8:38-39 that he made regarding the temple he built which now applies to the Living temple made without hands. He says:
What prayer and supplication soever be made by any man, or by all thy people Israel, which shall know every man the plague of his own heart, and spread forth his hands toward this house: Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;) 1Ki 8:38-39]
Take the time to read the prayer of Solomon in 1 Kings 8:26-53 regarding the temple that he made for God to dwell in. But before you do it is important to note that God honoured this prayer of Solomon in 1 Kings 9:3 where he said:
…I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. 1Ki 9:3
However, God made it clear that this was conditional as stated in 1 Kings 9:6-8 which says:
But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people: And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house? 1Ki 9:6-8
As we all know, this is exactly what happened to the house that Solomon built for God. But with this understanding we can now get to Solomon’s prayer, which now applies to the Living Temple of Jesus body. So if you read this prayer and apply it to this New and Living Temple it reveals some beautiful and amazing truths. I have abbreviated it due to the length of this post, so I hope you take the time to read it from your own Bibles. Trust me, you won’t regret it!
…O LORD my God, listen to the cry and to the prayer that your servant prays before you this day, that your eyes may be open night and day toward this house, the place of which you have said, 'My name shall be there,' that you may listen to the prayer that your servant offers toward this place.….."If there is famine in the land, if there is pestilence or blight or mildew or locust or caterpillar, if their enemy besieges them in the land at their gates, whatever plague, whatever sickness there is, whatever prayer, whatever plea is made by any man or by all your people Israel, each knowing the affliction of his own heart and stretching out his hands toward this house, then hear in heaven your dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to all his ways….. "Likewise, when a foreigner, who is not of your people Israel, comes from a far country for your name's sake (for they shall hear of your great name and your mighty hand, and of your outstretched arm), when he comes and prays toward this house, hear in heaven your dwelling place and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to you, in order that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your people Israel, and that they may know that this house that I have built is called by your name. "If they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near, yet if they turn their heart in the land to which they have been carried captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their captors, saying, 'We have sinned and have acted perversely and wickedly,' if they repent with all their mind and with all their heart in the land of their enemies, who carried them captive, and pray to you toward their land, which you gave to their fathers, the city that you have chosen, and the house that I have built for your name, then hear in heaven your dwelling place their prayer and their plea, and maintain their cause and forgive your people who have sinned against you, and all their transgressions that they have committed against you, and grant them compassion in the sight of those who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them……
O Lord GOD." 1 Kings 8:26-53
If God honoured the prayer of Solomon regarding the temple made with hands, how much more would He honour the Living Temple made without hands. I believe it is safe to apply Gods answer to
Solomon in 1 Kings 9:3 to the Living Temple as well but in the following way:
I (God) have hallowed this house(Jesus), made without hands, to put my name (Jesus) there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
There are so many verses that support what I have just presented. Read chapters 14-17 of John again and listen to our Lord Jesus’ own words especially enlight of King Solomon’s prayer.
While praying to the Father after having spoken to his disciples, Jesus said:
“I have declared unto them your name…” John 17:26
Yet if you read the following verses from John 14 you will notice that Jesus declared his own name to his disciples:
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Joh 14:13
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. Joh 14:14
But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Joh 15:21
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. Joh 16:24
Did Jesus lie to us? Of course he didn’t. In declaring His own name He was declaring the Father’s name. Jesus, in his prayer for his disciples said:
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; Joh 17:20
So let us see the word of the disciples and whose name they declared to us:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Joh 20:31
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. Act 3:6
Who will you believe? Jesus? His Disciples? Or someone else? Last thoughts before I sign off, God said to Moses in Exodus:
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty (El Shaddai), but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Exodus 6:3
As the above presentation has shown, this verse can also be applied to the New Testament but in the following way.
‘And I appeared unto Moses and the Children of Israel (in the wilderness), by the name of Jehovah, but by my name JESUS was I not known to them.’
Come, and let us go up to the House of our God, even Jesus.
(Sorry this was so long)
MAY JESUS BLESS US ALL! |
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james
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 567
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I do not believe in the Trinity, but if we say Father , Son and Holy Ghost are three separate beings or individuals do we not have three gods according to scripture ??
(sorry, can't expound more on why I do not believe in Trinity, lost tract of time and have to go to work, be back later) |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Bitterlily!!!!!
you take my breath away..AWESOME!! |
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luvnlife
Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 933
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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According to what the church I attend believes, God is God and Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. They are distinct individuals in one Godhead.
I believe that there is only one God as the bible states and that is the God who created us, the one who admonished that we should have no other Gods before him. The one who warns us about idol worship.
To His Son Jesus, however, he has given Lordship over mankind. Still, God is Jesus Father and our Father as well. Jesus referred to us as brethren.
I'm not sure I would refer to the Holy Spirit as a personage. The Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit dwelt in Jesus and dwells in those whose hearts are full of love for Jesus and for God. It is the spirit that lives in each of us. It is up to each of us to accept or reject that spirit, to love or hate it, to nurture it or allow it to die.
BitterLily quoted the following from Col 2:8, 9: | Quote: | | Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. |
Fulness means abundance, that which has been filled. Jesus has nurtured his (and our) Fathers spirit. The Godhead to me is God. We have Patriarchs and Heads of Households. God is the head of Christ.
BitterLily qutoting Mat 28:19: | Quote: | | Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost |
What does a Pastor or Preacher do when they baptize someone? They pray. How does the bible teach us to pray? To God. How do we end a prayer? In Jesus' name.
BitterLily also quoted: Act 2:38 … " | Quote: | | Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. |
Again..how do we end prayers? In Jesus' name. Why do we have a chance for salvation? Because of the sacrifice of Jesus. Is Jesus God? No, but he has been made Lord over us by God:
Acts 2:36 says: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
God has given much to his Son. He has given Jesus authority over us as our Lord. He has given His Son the authority to judge us, to teach us, to lead us and to counsel us. Still, there is one God and one Lord.
Love, Luv |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe in the trinity, but then again, I don't believe that Jesus was THE Messiah either. So it stands to reason  . The Christian bible is so full of holes, and the ones who decided to include Matthew in the Christian bible didn't do their research or they would have booted it. It was written by someone who was either not a Jew or was a very poor one. |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| towshab wrote: |
The Christian bible is so full of holes |
Such as?
| towshab wrote: | | It was written by someone who was either not a Jew or was a very poor one. |
How so? |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| TwoPutt wrote: | | towshab wrote: |
The Christian bible is so full of holes |
Such as?
| towshab wrote: | | It was written by someone who was either not a Jew or was a very poor one. |
How so? |
Should I start with the first chapter? I could writer a book on the errors in Matthew alone...
Should I start with the flaws in the genealogy of Jesus? |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| towshab wrote: | | TwoPutt wrote: | | towshab wrote: |
The Christian bible is so full of holes |
Such as?
| towshab wrote: | | It was written by someone who was either not a Jew or was a very poor one. |
How so? |
Should I start with the first chapter? I could writer a book on the errors in Matthew alone...
Should I start with the flaws in the genealogy of Jesus? |
Well, since Matthew 1 deals with Jesus' genealogy, why not start there?
Is Jehoiachin going to be the issue? Just curious. |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| TwoPutt wrote: |
Well, since Matthew 1 deals with Jesus' genealogy, why not start there?
Is Jehoiachin going to be the issue? Just curious. |
Only one. The very first is the fact that he was supposed to be born of a virgin. Since this is the case, Joseph is not his biological father, totally invalidating the bloodline through Joseph. Adoption does not count: THE Messiah is to be the "seed" of David, and no seed of was passed on through Joseph. |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| towshab wrote: | | TwoPutt wrote: |
Well, since Matthew 1 deals with Jesus' genealogy, why not start there?
Is Jehoiachin going to be the issue? Just curious. |
Only one. The very first is the fact that he was supposed to be born of a virgin. Since this is the case, Joseph is not his biological father, totally invalidating the bloodline through Joseph. Adoption does not count: THE Messiah is to be the "seed" of David, and no seed of was passed on through Joseph. |
Is that your argument in a nutshell? |
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towshab
Labrador
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| TwoPutt wrote: | | towshab wrote: | | TwoPutt wrote: |
Well, since Matthew 1 deals with Jesus' genealogy, why not start there?
Is Jehoiachin going to be the issue? Just curious. |
Only one. The very first is the fact that he was supposed to be born of a virgin. Since this is the case, Joseph is not his biological father, totally invalidating the bloodline through Joseph. Adoption does not count: THE Messiah is to be the "seed" of David, and no seed of was passed on through Joseph. |
Is that your argument in a nutshell? |
Nope, also the 14, 14, 14 is in error too. |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| towshab wrote: | | TwoPutt wrote: | | towshab wrote: | | TwoPutt wrote: |
Well, since Matthew 1 deals with Jesus' genealogy, why not start there?
Is Jehoiachin going to be the issue? Just curious. |
Only one. The very first is the fact that he was supposed to be born of a virgin. Since this is the case, Joseph is not his biological father, totally invalidating the bloodline through Joseph. Adoption does not count: THE Messiah is to be the "seed" of David, and no seed of was passed on through Joseph. |
Is that your argument in a nutshell? |
Nope, also the 14, 14, 14 is in error too. |
Okay. Anything else? Are you interested in doing a little reading on this subject? I think I can present a position to you that addresses the issues you mention.
Let me know.
God bless,
2P |
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luvnlife
Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 933
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is a little late but I am going to lay out the scriptures mentioned in the first post of this thread.
Because there is a lot of information, I will lay the following posts out gospel-by-gospel starting with Matthew and following in order:
Matt 3:16, 17 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matt 12:50 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Matt 13:41-43 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Matt 15:13 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Matt 16: 15-17 & 27 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matt 18:14 & 35 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost. 35 "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Matt 19: 17 & 26 17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matt 20:23 23 Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."
Matt 21:12 & 33-39 12And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
* I included this next parable as I believe it is a reference to God and Jesus and to us as Gods adopted children *
Matt 22:1-14 & 31,32 1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. 5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: 6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 [b]Then said the king to the servants[/b], Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen. 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Matt 23: 8-10 8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
Matt 25: 34 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
Matt 26: 29 I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
Last edited by luvnlife on Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:53 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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