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kejonn
Show Poodle
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 251
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 Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: New heaven, new earth |
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Here's a question, although I don't know if I'll find an answer: when were (or will be?!?) the new heaven and new earth created? At the same time as the present ones?
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Yasna 30.9 - So may we be like those making the world progress toward perfection; May God and the Divine Spirits help us and guide our efforts through Truth; For a thinking man is where Wisdom is at home. |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: Re: New heaven, new earth |
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| kejonn wrote: | | Here's a question, although I don't know if I'll find an answer: when were (or will be?!?) the new heaven and new earth created? At the same time as the present ones? |
The New earth refers to a distant age when Jesus' true gospel has subdued the world, ushering in the age of "light and life".
The New Heaven is in reference to the entire system created by Jesus achieving "light and life".
John wrote: "I saw a new heaven and a new earth and the new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a princess adorned for the prince."
Oie Captain, should be hit warp speed? Yes, and set tazzers on "stun", we don't want to hurt the anti Trinitarian's, just faze them.
Colter
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Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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when we are born again.
In my opinion heaven represents the mind and earth represents the body.
When we are born again we recieve a new mind and a new body.
New mind because we don't think the way we used to think..
and a New body because we don't use our bodies the way we used to.
New Jerusalem in my opinion is the Holy Spirit that is given us that we enter into and it changes us from day to day...glory to glory.
It is the dove that rests upon our shoulder...it is the burden that is light.
It's the yoke that we share together...the kingdom of God.
when you pray for the new heaven and new earth, believe that you have recieved and the invisible will become manifest in you...
hugs
lone
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: New heaven, new earth |
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Hi kj,
They are already created!
What is new about earth and heaven is the new attitude of Love in us for each and all in them--- just as how any old person in Love and therefore in Christ becomes new is due to having that new mind-set of Love in that same old man.
2 Corinthians 5:
17Therefore if any man be in Christ,
he is a new creature:
old things are passed away;
behold,
all things are become new.
With the Love
that sees the new in the old and the old in the new,
and
that makes the same old new and the same new newer and the same newer newest, ps 110:1,
atoz |
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skytintedwater
Newbie Alert
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hey!
I think that the new earth is something that will be created at the second coming of Christ. 2 Peter 3:10-13 talks about the day of the Lord when the earth will be burned and destroyed, later on in this passage it says, "According to his promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells." This promise is the promise that God gave to Abraham way back in Genesis 12 and 13, where he is promised land, he didn't inherit that land while he was alive, but he will inherit the land on the new earth, and we will inherit the same land because we are sons of Abraham. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Isaiah first mentions a new heaven and new earth in chapter 65 of his book:
| Quote: | 1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.
8Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
10And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.
11But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.
12Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. |
Verse 1 should also be familiar to many of us. Paul quotes it in Romans 11 in his explanation of how national Israel's unbelief had resulted in the Gentile believers' also inheriting the promises made to Israel, and God having a chosen people of both Jews and Gentiles who are of faith.
And that remains the topic of the chapter until the end. Right up to verse 17, God is rebuking disobedient and unbelieving Israel, and prophesying of how He would send His wrath on them and choose a people who would have another name, who would not disappoint Him, and this is plainly all who have faith in Jesus.
Verse 17 begins with "For behold..." meaning "therefore...", "because of what I've just been saying...". Isaiah's topic is still the transformation from the old covenant to the new covenant, fulfilled in the time of Christ.
Perhaps Colter's "distant age when Jesus' true gospel has subdued the world, ushering in the age of "light and life"" is not so distant after all, but here now if we will see it.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Perhaps Colter's "distant age when Jesus' true gospel has subdued the world, ushering in the age of "light and life"" is not so distant after all, but here now if we will see it. |
Technically yes, the kingdom of heaven is here now and open to all who are seeking Gods will in faith. But the world, well, we have along ways to go. 
Colter
_________________
Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God." |
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Monothiest
Tadpole
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 25
Location: new york
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Kingdom of God now!!!!!
How depressing! In the kingdom there will be no pain or suffering or death and Jesus will be the king of it!
I dont know about you, but when I look around all I see is pain and suffering and its only getting worse.
Satan is still the ruler of this age, If Jesus is ruling right now things would be different. |
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Monothiest
Tadpole
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 25
Location: new york
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I heard a quote from Leonard Ravenhill and he said "The prophets spoke the word of God, people today speak about the word of god, everyone has their own opinions"
Everyone has different opinions on what the Kingdom of God is and drawing their conclusions from God only knows where....some of the things I've heard on this board were just nuts I'm sorry.
Jesus never really told us in depth what the Kingdom of God is. So we can take that everyone (being Jews) new what Jesus was talking about. We must take our definition from the Old Testament. The Prophets speak of the Land being renewed, Revelation talks about New Jerusalem coming down OUT OF heaven to the new earth (that obviously isnt yet here)
There is so much evidence pointing to what the Kingdom of God really is and I feel People have been so tainted by orthodoxy that fail to miss the simplicity of it. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2269
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Monothiest wrote: | | I heard a quote from Leonard Ravenhill and he said "The prophets spoke the word of God, people today speak about the word of god, everyone has their own opinions" |
I like that quote!!
I merely quoted Isaiah, and without adding to or reading into his words, commented on what he was writing about.
And when Peter in his epistle, and John in the Revelation wrote about the new heaven and new earth, I see no reason to understand it as anything but a reference to what Isaiah had written - another example of "This is that which is spoken of by the prophets...". If they meant something completely different by it, they would be misleading their readers because they never indicate that. Quite the opposite.
| Monothiest wrote: | How depressing! In the kingdom there will be no pain or suffering or death and Jesus will be the king of it!
I dont know about you, but when I look around all I see is pain and suffering and its only getting worse.
Satan is still the ruler of this age, If Jesus is ruling right now things would be different. |
I'm amazed that God reconciling fallen mankind back to Himself and restoring the broken fellowship that man enjoyed with Him before sin separated man from God, never more to be broken again, could be considered depressing.
Modern Christians often remind me of 1st century Jews, waiting for an earthly kingdom while completely missing the culmination of God's plan in saving His people from their sins. Many in Jesus' day were expecting Jesus to lead a military uprising that would defeat the Romans. They were expecting God to judge and destroy everyone they considered an enemy, setting up an earthly utopia, where they would live in peace and harmony... and everyone who they didn't like would be dead. I have known Christians who await pretty much the same thing with great joy and anticipation.
| Monothiest wrote: | | Jesus never really told us in depth what the Kingdom of God is. |
 I think there may be a wealth of information before our eyes that we don't perhaps always see.
| Monothiest wrote: | | So we can take that everyone (being Jews) new what Jesus was talking about. |
An earthly utopia where Israel is the the great superpower, and all Gentiles were either serving them or dead. That is what "everyone" in Jesus' day thought the kingdom of God would be.
| Monothiest wrote: | | We must take our definition from the Old Testament. The Prophets speak of the Land being renewed, Revelation talks about New Jerusalem coming down OUT OF heaven to the new earth (that obviously isnt yet here) |
I agree that we must look to the old testament, because there we find the promises that the writers in the new testament said the early church was awaiting fulfillment of. I would encourage you to research how the writers of the new testament understood those promises of the land being renewed, and of Israel being brought back to the land promised to their fathers.
And I would definitely encourage you to re-read Rev 21 closely if you're sure the New Jerusalem is not here.
| Monothiest wrote: | | There is so much evidence pointing to what the Kingdom of God really is and I feel People have been so tainted by orthodoxy that fail to miss the simplicity of it. |
My thoughts also.
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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saintmichaeldefendthem
Big Lion
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 979
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Romans 8:19 NKJV "For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
20. For the creation was subjected to futility, now willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
21. because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children God.
22. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. |
Whoever created the image of winged, disembodied souls sitting on clouds playing harps did the world a profound disservice, for this is not what we have to look forward to. Many consider their faith disembodied and have consigned everything regarding faith to the spiritual world. They distrust matter as evil and the source of evil, which will only be rectified by its complete annihilation.
But God created the earth and called it good. God even took on human flesh, not as a temporary suit, but as an eternal fusion of spirit and incarnation. Even today Jesus resides bodily (Col 2:9) in heaven and bears the marks of his merciless crucifixion (Rev 1:7) and as the angel promised, will return bodily to redeem us and creation alike. (Acts 1:11)
We will experience a physical, not just a spiritual, resurrection, regardless of the state of decay or obliteration our mortal bodies have endured. In the twinkling of an eye, (1 Corin 15:52) we will be changed. And we will spend eternity in a glorified and perfected creation, with Jesus and the glorious company of angels and saints; where the lamb lays down with the lion and fears not for its safety, for death has been destroyed. (Heb 2:14)
A tremendous promise of joy unspeakable that harps and clouds cannot compare to.
Ave Maria, gratia plena |
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