Hope of seeing relatives again??

Hippo · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:16 pm Post subject: Hope of seeing relatives again??

Hi there. While I wouldn't neccesarily call myself a Jehovah's Witness as yet, I do have regular bible studies and attend meetings at the local Kingdom hall.
One of my questions I still have is about who will be ressurected when Christ comes to rule earth. In reading the book 'reasoning from the scriptures' I noticed a particular topic to use when witnessing was "would you like to see your relatives again?". I thought this was a bit inaccurate to say to someone as I was under the impression that people will be ressurected judged on the deeds we do in this life. So surely if you lived a good life but one of your relatives lived a life of sin without knowing or loving Christ then that relative wouldn't be resurected and hence you wouldn't see them again.

I'd appreciated any comments or ideas espescially any scriptures that would help.

Thanks

rondoggy · Ferret Joined: 12 Mar 2003 Posts: 124

Hippo,
First let me say that I was a JW for many years. I am now a Christian.

Please take a look at the many ways that the Jw group has been proven to be a cult and that it's doctrines are false.

This making the public think that their dead relatives will be ressurected is to lure in those who may have recently encountered death in the family.

Once you are inside they reveal it is only a hope.

As a Christian I am glad to know that salvation is not a hope but a guarantee.
And that it is from the grace of God, that one does not have to work ( going door to door for the Watchtower Society) to gain it.

I will pray for you.
Ron

mijt1 · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:26 pm Post subject:

This making the public think that their dead relatives will be ressurected is to lure in those who may have recently encountered death in the family.

Once you are inside they reveal it is only a hope.

Hippo If you have studied and been to meetings then you should know the above quote is total rubbish. Dont waste your time looking at apostate rubbish on the internet.

Look at the international worldwide brotherhood of Jehovah's witnesses. They have a love and unity that christendom will never have. If you Allow yourself to be drawn away by apostate thinking then ask yourself, where are you going to go?
probably end up believing Jesus loves you and thats that.

Your question could be easily answered by anyone at the kingdom hall. You only have to ask.

Hippo · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:33 pm Post subject:

Thanks both for your comments but neither adressed the question I had. If you could put aside your feelings for a second and look at the question I present : Is there really hope of seeing lost relatives again???
Try and use the bible to answer if you can instead of trying to change my mind about my beliefs.
Mitj1 - I have asked my study this question but did not receive a satisfying answer so I'm researching it myself. I like to see others views on the bible if only out of interest
Thanks

mijt1 · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:45 pm Post subject:

Hippo · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:56 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the help MitJ1 however there are a couple of points I'm still not too sure on. My problem isn't with resurection itself, I've no doubts that will happen, but I'm still not sure about exactly who will be left to live under the new Kingdom of Jesus.

I find it hard to accept that it's our actions on judgment day that will determine whether we live or die. Won't that mean that there will be many resurected only to face another death? What are the things we will do (or not do) on Judgment day that will decide? Why bother with this life if it is judgment day that will decide our fate?

Also you talk about people who hadn't the chance to learn of Jehovah such as children, or people who couldn't read. Does this mean that people who did have a chance to know the bible but chose not to, won't be ressurected?

I don't mean to argue but it's a bit confusing. I keep thinking that I shouldn't care too much about it, as the ressurection is not up to me, but I can't help but be interested in what's in store for us.

If there's any Watchtower books in particular you could think of, please give me the names and I will try and get a copy.

mijt1 · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:02 pm Post subject:

Hippo
You are welcome to ask any questions you want. If you want you can have my email address.

We cannot say for certain who wont be resurrected, except to say it would be a very very small number compared to those that will. Obviously anyone who dies at Armageddon will not be. When we preach from door to door the vast majority are not interested and tell us so. Of those that die now the decision as to whether they will get a resurrection or not is up to Jehovah, but there is no reason why the vast majority of them wont.

Remember that judgement day is a thousand years long. During that time Satan will be out of the way and mankind and the earth will be restored to perfection.
At the end of that thousand years satan will be let loose for one final test on all mankind.
Revelation tells us that Satan will succeed in turning some away from god.
These are the ones that will finally be destroyed along with satan.

If you are already studying with someone then you should be studying the book THE KNOWLEDGE THAT LEADS TO EVERLASTING LIFE if not then you should read that one. Also have a read of the book Revelation, its grand climax at hand.
Have you had your district assembly yet? Mine is in July. I would encourage you to attend that if you can.

Hippo · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:25 pm Post subject:

Again thanks a lot for your help. Your latest comments have cleared up most of my doubts. I wasn't aware that the term judgment day meant the entire thousand years - I thought it meant more or less the same as Armagedon, but having looked back at some of my studies I see thatyour right.

At my bible study we are working through the booklet 'What does God require of us' and because I always have lots of questions I've been given the book 'Reasoning from the Scriptures' which is quite useful. I have in the course of my studies read parts of Revalations but I'm trying to finish reading the bible in order (have recently finished Romans - one of my favourite books of the Greek Scriptures so far)

Still a bit confused as to all these assemblies and meetings so I'm not sure when ours is but I'm sure I'll be informed of it when it comes up.

Thanks again

rondoggy · Ferret Joined: 12 Mar 2003 Posts: 124

Hippo,
I hope that you consider all before joining this Cult.
Take a look at some of the information provided on this forum and it is clear that this is a group that does not adhere to sound Christian doctrine.

I will pray that you recognize that God saves by Grace. It is a free gift.
There are things that God expects of his servants, however salvation is a gift that one does not have to work for.

I am being sincere and hope this post is recieved as such.
I was a Jehovahs Witness for more than 30 years and after stepping back and researching Gods word without Watchtower material and asking God to lead me, I was able to break free from the Cult and now have recieved salvation from God.
It is a freedom in Christ I never experienced before.
There are things that the Jehovahs Witnesses do not tell you when you are studying either.
Take a look at their failed prophicies, their history, their hypocrisy, their lies, and their bible the NWT itself. You find many many things that show this not only to be a cult, but to be blaspemous as well.

I thank God everyday that he led me out of the Watchtower bondage.

I am only telling you these things so that you are well informed of all the information on Jehovahs Witnesses before you are completely decieved by them.

God bless.

mijt1 · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Hippo

Glad I could help Hippo and I hope you carry on with your studies.
As you do everything will be much clearer, just be patient. I know when I was first studying I used to ask a million and one different questions.

. One good book to have a look at though is the book Jehovahs witnesses proclaimers of gods kingdom. This will tell you all about the history of Jehovahs witnesses including the mistakes they made and wrong expectations. They have not tried to hide it.

I can only advise you not to search the internet for information. I did it once when I was studying and its not nice, it has stumbled some. I knew someone once who was disfellowshiped for adultery, he tried to have people believe he was disfellowshiped as most of them do, for treading on the cracks in the pavement. He became involved in apostate groups and did everything he could to pull his family away. Thankfully he failed. He has since returned to meetings and admitted that these people tell lies.
They circulate rumours about the society, invent lies and even print false documents that they say came from the society. Every apostate will tell you that they know someone who is only a JW because they fear ridicule and even violence from their families if they leave. If you have been to meetings then you know that elders are not dark and sinister men that control the congregation for their own selfish gain.

Who cares if the people that tell you these things were once JWs for many years.
In your congregation you will have brothers and sisters that have faithfully served Jehovah for many many years. Talk to those ones instead.

They will often try to tell you that you dont have to preach. All you have to do is believe Jesus loves you and you are saved. Its true we cannot earn eternal life, but the apostle James said at James 2:26 faith without works is dead.
Also look up in your bible what Paul said at 1 Corinthians 9:16.17
The last thing Jesus said to his disciples was to go make disciples of all the nations, he also said he would be with us to the end of the system of things. Mathew 28:20

I dont want to encourage you to read too many books at once hippo but if you want evidence of Jehovahs blessing on our organization then have a look at some of our videos or read experiences from the year books. Read experiences from countries like Israel, Rwanda, Ireland, Africa and the Balkans. See the comparison between Christendom and JWs in these countries and you will appreciate the loving world wide brotherhood that we have. We have this unity because we have gods blessing and thats why we are the ones fulfilling Jesus prophecy at Mathew 24:14
There is no other organization that has the will or the ability to do it.

I wish you well with your studies.

Hippo · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:13 pm Post subject:

First off to Rondoggy:

I appreciate your concern Ron but I'd first like to look at your use of the word cult. According the dictionary a cult is 'A religious worship espescially as expressed in ceremonies; study and pursuit of worship' To me this sounds like pretty much any religion.

Your use of the phrase 'Sound Christian doctrine'. Bottom line is, the bible is the one thing God gave us as a basis to know him, respect him and know how to follow him etc Jehovah's Witnesses always explain their beliefs directly from the bible. I feel most of their beliefs are fully justified.

As for the new world translation : At my bible studies I take a New Century bible as it's the one I first began reading. When we compare scriptures from the New Century and the New World, they almost always mean the same. There are obvious differences certainly, but in the end the same message can be clearly seen in my bible.

As for the lies and failed prophecies etc I'm not sure what the basis for these accusations are but I see know reason for them to lie, I see know evidence of failed prophecies. I respect the fact that JW's try to live life as early christians did which is surely better than living life according to religions that have been around for hundreds of years which have lost touch with the early instructions of Jesus and the apostles.

Having said all this there are some beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses I don't understand but that's why I study the bible - to try and understand. I never like to take anyone's word or theory about the bible or bible meaniongs without researching them for myself, so I feel as long as I continue to do this I won't be led astray, as believe that God and his word the bible only things to fully trust.

To MitJ1 :
Yes patience is something I need more of as I often find myself getting frustrated with my slow progress to understand the bible.

You're right about the reading material, there's certainly plenty to go around. I have read the booklet 'Jehovah's Witnesses:Unitedly doing God's Will' and watched a few videos on the history of JW's, all of which were very interesting. The only problem with these is that they are at times to inspirational in that I feel intimidated that there are such dedicated people out there and I sometimes wonder if I can be even half as good as them. I always felt that way when reading about Jesus and the apostles as well.

I do hear you about the internet, I try not to take to much on the internet too seriously but I often find myself looking about on a boring day. The Watchtower website often has some good articles though. Indeed I don't know where the idea that elders are selfish and deceitful came from but everyone I have met at meetings have been nothing but friendly and supportive.

I found the most compelling reading about the work of Jehovah's Witnesses in the book 'Reasoning from the Scriptures' where it listed seven key points to take into account when looking at various religions.

Thanks
(wow I think that's the longest post I've ever written)

rondoggy · Ferret Joined: 12 Mar 2003 Posts: 124

Hiipo,
You have the right attitude, study the bible, do not believe what anyone tells you.
To know of the failed prophicies and other lies and hypocrisy, you would have to do research on it.
If you don't then you are not getting the complete picture and don't want to know. Many do not want them to be wrong so they look no further.
If you like their book Reasoning from the Scriptures - you should get a copy of Ron Rhodes book Reasoning from the Scriptures with Jehovahs Witnesses, make a comparison.

Take care and I will continue in prayer for you.
Ron

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6842 Location: USA

I have no intention on entering a debate on differences between Christianity and Jehovah's Witnesses but I do have to make a point or two...

Matthew 22, verses 29 , 30
29: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30: For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12, verses 24 , 25
24: And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25: For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

These references seem to indicate that familial relationships are void upon resurrection. I would tend to think that 'seeing family members' again would be irrelevant and any religion that supported this idea would be in error.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have twice predicted the end of days, provided dates as well, as those dates came and went, they murmured something incoherent and tried to quiet the whole thing.

Any religion that uses materials other than the scriptures to support their belief is in error. The only word one should use as a guide to God's will and love is THE BIBLE (if you are a bible believer that is... Wink

). Anytime anyone refers you to a publication other than the bible to inform you of "God's" word they are misleading you.

YOUR responsibility as a believer in Christ is to read, study, meditate on and pray on the scripture, seeking God's divine light to shine his understanding on you. God will not let you sit there clueless if you seek out his word. But HE certainly did not write The Watchtower, or The Book Of Mormon, or any other religious paraphanelia. He gave us His Word and His promise to help us. It is our responsibity to bring our questions to Him through prayer and His word, NOT to anyone else, or any other religious organization.

mijt1 · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:46 am Post subject:

Hello Hippo
No need to ever feel unworthy, we all have different circumstances and different abilities. Its what we do from the heart that counts. Have a read of the account at
Mathew 25:14-30

The remark about Elders is just one of the ways people attack the organization.
I’m glad you have seen for yourself its total rubbish. Sad thing is that most people that read it will believe it even if they know nothing of our organization.

Keep going, you are doing ok

Hippo · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:18 am Post subject:

To Rondoggy:
I'm sure if I did enough research I could find something wrong with any of the different Christian organisations. Everyone makes mistakes. Still I get your point though and will try to keep it in mind. Thanks for the book recomendation but I have more than enough literature avaliable not to mention the bible itself.

RevJP:
Interesting thoughts, but surely we will remember our former lives and consequently family members and be curious as to where they are etc. Or are you saying that perhaps our memories will be wiped clean? Or do you mean that we will love all others like our own family as Jesus taught when he was on earth?

I hear your point on using the Bible as the only source of understanding God. However as I mentioned before all beliefs of Witnesses are supported by the scriptures. As for the watchtower magazines etc they too, always have scriptures to back up the point of their articles so I don't see the problem. Yes the Bible is the only book we should be reading if we won't to be closer to Jehovah, but I don't always understand everything the Bible says right away so I must turn to someone for help. Praying for help is obviously the first thing to do but the Bible itself teaches us that it's good to ask questions.

To Mijt1
Thanks, yes I remember that scripture quite well espescially the one that follows concerning the separation of the sheep and goats. I also found Romans 12:3-8 quite enchouraging in regards to feeling unworthy.

Sunday's meeting featured an excellent talk on the meaning of the Revelation's mentioning of Babylon the Great and what it all means. I couldn't help but think of your warnings about the internet as a way to be affected by the false religions warned about in Revelations and what will happen to those associating with them.