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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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 Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| AMK wrote: |
Reminds me of a situation my brother was in once. My brother is a church of scotland chaplain. He was the chaplain in the local prison for a few years. One of the inmates punched him and my brother punched him back. The inmate said that he was a man of the cloth, and was supposed to turn the other cheek? 
My brother said that sometimes its easier to ask for forgivness, than permission  I don,t agree with that, Intentional sin for greater reward, But I guess I knew how he felt 
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atoz: Wow!
Your bro did NOT sin by NOT turning the other cheek just as JC did not sin by NOT turning the other cheek when He was slapped!
John 18:
19The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine.
20Jesus answered him,
I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
21Why askest thou me?
ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.
22And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying,
Answerest thou the high priest so?
23Jesus answered him,
If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?
24Now Annas had sent him bound unto Caiaphas the high priest.
So it was in Love that JC did not turn the other cheek.
And what JC meant in Matthew 5 was:
Turn the other cheek in Love of the hit and in Love of not turning.
In Love of turning and in LOove of being hit, do NOT turn the other cheek.
So whether we turn ot not, we MUST love from the heart the hitter.
The sin is NOT hitting nor is the solution not hitting or not hitting back.
So, neither did your bro sin by hitting back.
If hitting or hitting back is a sin then God sins when he scourges or hits us. Heb 12:5-7.
But as it says: God hits in Love or in Love hits not.
So, altogether now, your bro sinned by hating himself as a hit or as a hitter or as an inmate or as a fool or as wahtever words he ALREADY hated himself as BEFORE he was hit!
see?
So NOT hitting that inmate back wd NOT have and cd NOT have solved the problem of the Hit of Hate still in his heart!
Only repenting of hating himself as a hitter by loving himself as a hitter can solve the sin of hatred invo9lved in the hit.
IF your bro ALREADY hated himself as any word, he was ALREADY sinning by that HATING even if he had NOT hit back.
see?
He sinned by his prejudcial intent of Hate and to hate those who hit him since he hated himself as a a hitter and so hated the inmate who hit him, OR as he wd say: he loved the inmate as hitter but hated the sin of his act of hitting.
The pre-intent to hate the hit is the sin, not the intent to hit the hitter nor to ask forgivness rather than permission!
see?
The Hit of Hate is the sin that leads to hitting in hate and to overhitting in Hate and to hitting with Hate even when there is NO physical hitting.
But if your bro loved himself as a hitter and as hit and so loved being hit and loved hitting, then he wd NOT have sinned by NOT hitting back NOR wd he have sinned as he did: hit back...since he wd have hit back ...in Love...OR in Love he cd have decided to NOT hit back.
Plus, asking forgiveness for what you hate someone else for DOING does not and can not cut it.
Do you love hits in music or in cricket or in baseball?smile
Do you love Bob marley?
He once said that the good thing about music is that when it hits you, you feel no pain!smile
Of course, that is music you LOVE!smi;e
| AMK wrote: |
I like 16:14 best. Although the translation in translations is different. KJV uses charity, NIV uses Love.
In my country Love has more vast and deeper meaning than charity! Charity is part of love of course. The reason I mention it is because I am more of a KJV man, although I do use other translations. |
atoz:Yes, Love covers what giving charity means now.
Back then charity probably also meant Love as unconditional as in giving AND in taking.
Q: can you give without taking?
Or, take without giving?
I am a KJV man too, but a KJVIL man: a KJV In Love man!smile
In the Hit of Love softens all hits and makes no-hitters of no hits,
and makes chaps chaps in Love of the slain!smile
atoz |
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holly102869
Show Poodle
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Central, Florida USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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atoz,
I will jump back in tomarrow morning just got off work. It's alittle after ten here and I have to get up early to get the kids off to school. I want to reread when I am good and awake.
Love you all.
Good Night.....  |
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holly102869
Show Poodle
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Central, Florida USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hey atoz and AMK,
Sorry, I know it is now evening. I have been packing all day. I feel the tension in the air here so I thought I should get ahead of the game. I am prepared for the face off so to speak with my mother. I am praying that all goes well as I type. I ask that ya'll pray for me to keep my cool.
All that has been said has helped me to see that I need to really be strong and ask God to stand with me right now. I am not going to run away without letting her know that I am not mad and she has my forgiveness. Thank you both for your encouragement and for giving me the stregnth I need right now.
You both are really great in your faith with God. Keep going forward because I feel that you are on the right path. God will show his grace to you both along with many others on this site.
Well that is it for now. I will try to see what is going on here before I no longer have access to a computer and will try to check in from time to time.
Viva Con Dios (Go with God) |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Praying in Love for you, Holly....and I know that you have already passed that test of Love for your mom.
So it is game, set, match for you.
with Love for you and mom,
atoz |
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AMK
Kitten
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 147
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: | | AMK wrote: |
From the pov of the one in Love, you in this case, you wd be able to genuinely take in Love help from a hater...but it wd be of no spiritual benefit to the hater!
see?
See matthew 6:1-10:the very giving wd be the hater's only 'reward.' |
Not just the giving, But also the outcome, Although that can go both ways.
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Yes.
| Quote: |
More details is found in 2 sam 13:15:
Because of how God has designed the brain,
it is auto that
with the Love in me I have open Love for my friends and secret Love my enemies,
and
with the Hate in men, I have secret Hate for my friends and open Hate for my enemies.
We are doing both at the same time! |
| AMK wrote: |
I actualy understand this, But I have problems agreeing with that particular verse?
Not about "loving,yet hating", But about the act itself. Acording to the chapter, He raped her, There was no conscent on her part, So why is he hating her? Sounds more like his excuse for hiding his own sin?
(Ok I know thats off track a little )can go both ways.
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| Quote: | No, it is NOT off track!
With Love, everything[et] is on track, the only thing off track being the sin of Hatred for any track or word or word-track!smile
Now please ask any questions when you read this!smile
The first rape of each of their minds, hers by him and him by him, occurs when he ALREADY had the attitude of Hate for himself as a virgin, as a foolish virgin, as unsexed, as damaged goods, as used, as raped, as a raper, as a fornicator, as a thief, as any word you can think of....BEFORE he ever THOUGHT of raping her OR even if he never thought of ever raping her!
That is what the 'already] in Matthew 5:27-28, 21-22 means.
Hatred of itself for any word is the sin of rape or murder or stealing or adultery or lust or lying or idolatry...since for instance, Hatred first with Hatred kills Love or murder Love, steals Love, lies about Love, adulterates Love, etc
See Romans 13:8.
Therefore, the sin of Hatred of any word is the spirit of breaking every one of the ten Comandments before physically breaking any and even if none were ever subsequently broken.
Please see Luke 18:9-14.
It is this Attitude of Hate that makes rape sinful, not the act itself. To reap is to rape the virgin soil...which reaping is not a sin...even tho nobody ever asked the ground nor the worms nor the trees nor the plants permission....except IF reaping is done with Hatred for being hungry or for being poor or for worms or the environment, and etc.
So reaping or raping is NOT an act of hatred of itself.
It is only an act of hatred to the extent that the rapist hates himself as other words!
When David raped Bathsheba in 2 sam 11, it was more in Love than in Hate, which is why and how he married her after the baby died,
and God blesed D&B in Love with S:olomon.
Notice that it was the little good Love Amnon had for Tamar as beautiful and as desired and as etc that made him want to rape her or have sex with her without permission....as per 2 sam 11:1-4.
but he wd NOT have wanted to have sex with her if he thought she was or if she looked like an old, ugly hag covered with leprosy and had aids and hated her as such;
but it was his MUCH Hatred for not having sex that drove him over the edge, made his push become a shove;
and she wd have been ready to tolerate even that un permitted-by-her rape IF after the rape he had loved her as used and abused and damaged goods and as raped and NOT thrown her out, or even if it was in Love and R that he HAD put her out! The Love wd have made ALL the difference.
But of course, he only had limited Love and even that ltd Love was flipping back and forth with his Hate. That MUCH Hatred is what spiritually raped and hurt his, her, her bro Absalom's minds, and finally physically hurt Amnon and absalom and david and etc.
What remained after the rape was the Hate that was there before the rape.
As with staying or leaving, it is that remaining Hate that really hurts or re-rapes both minds of the raper and the rapee.
And that Rape of Hate can only be healed by Love.
I have to love myself as a rapee and as a rapist in order to love rapees and rapists as myself, and so therefore show rapees that worse than being raped is to keep on raping oneself spiritually and mentally abd emotionally and psychologically with the Hatred for oneself as raped and as the rapist and as etc,
and so also show rapists that worse than being a rapist is to continue hating oneself as a rapist,...which hatred will only lead to MORE raping JUST AS the initial hatred lead to the first spiritual self-rape and raping Love from others, then led to physical rape of others more in Hate than in Love of those who are raped!!!!!....as 2 Samuel 13:15 says!!!!
rest later.
Questions for you in the meantime:
Did God or Abarham sin when God told Abe to do the act of killing isaac?
See Gen 22.
Did God sin by the act of killing JC? See John 3:16.
See also 2 sam 12:7 where Samuel told David:
You are the man
who killed Uriah even tho u used Joab,
and Joab then used the enemy of israel to do the killing of uriah.
So even tho God used mankind to kill JC,
who is the Man?
see acts 4:27-28
This is to help you do what you are already doing: see the sin of hatred as the only sin and not any act.
Holly, please jump in!smile
All else too.
in Love,
atoz |
Q) Is death caused by another done in hate or in love considered sin? I would not say that of God,Got cannot sin. many say that God can do anything. God cannot sin! But man? Even Issac can sin in the process of doing what God asks him. Q) Who was it Issac spoke to on his way to sacrafice his son? Can you remember what was said? I wonder if Issac lied? Ok I am going off track again. I enjoyed reading your comments although it has taken me some time to digest. matter of fact. i am still digesting them |
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AMK
Kitten
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 147
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| holly102869 wrote: | Hey atoz and AMK,
Sorry, I know it is now evening. I have been packing all day. I feel the tension in the air here so I thought I should get ahead of the game. I am prepared for the face off so to speak with my mother. I am praying that all goes well as I type. I ask that ya'll pray for me to keep my cool.
All that has been said has helped me to see that I need to really be strong and ask God to stand with me right now. I am not going to run away without letting her know that I am not mad and she has my forgiveness. Thank you both for your encouragement and for giving me the stregnth I need right now.
You both are really great in your faith with God. Keep going forward because I feel that you are on the right path. God will show his grace to you both along with many others on this site.
Well that is it for now. I will try to see what is going on here before I no longer have access to a computer and will try to check in from time to time.
Viva Con Dios (Go with God) |
I have been keeping you and your mother in my prayers. God bless  |
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AMK
Kitten
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 147
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I understand in this situation with my brother. I can grasp this too. I am sure the rape case is similar, But I don,t see the similarity? I will need more time to ponder this. For the time being I,ll answer the rest:
| Atoz wrote: | Do you love hits in music or in cricket or in baseball?smile
Do you love Bob marley?
He once said that the good thing about music is that when it hits you, you feel no pain!smile
Of course, that is music you LOVE |
Well since hits is a popular word lately Yes, We are both big reggie fans actualy. my wife says its the only music she likes to dance too and I am the only one she dances with ever  But that saying of Bob Marley,s Only applies to those who can always think positively of the past, regardless of the outcome! See?
| Quote: | Q: can you give without taking?
Or, take without giving? |
Well I would put it this way:
When you give, You get. regardless if your intent was only to give
Take without giving? yes and no!
In closing: I started back at work today. Painting a very very old cathedral in Stavanger called Petrikirken. The job is only as boering as you wan,t to beleave it is |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| AMK wrote: |
Q) Is death caused by another done in hate or in love considered sin?
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Since hatred of any word is the sin because God loves each word and its opposite, Matthew 5:43-48, 1 John 3:4,
Hatred of any word is the sin that confers sin on death however caused.
God kills in Love: Deut 32:37: as he did with JC and as he told Abraham to do with Isaac: gen 22.
In the case of JC, it was NO sin for God to kill JC in Love, while at the same time it WAS a sin for the humans God used to do His killing of JC for HIm becasue they hated JC and so killed Him in hate!
See how Love empoweres us to rightly divide God's words down to the letter?
So killing in Love is not a sin ... which is why taking the life of animal we lvoe as food is NOT a sin....and taking the life of any animal we hate as food is a sin: Isa 66:3.
AMK: I would not say that of God,Got cannot sin. many say that God can do anything. God cannot sin!
atoz: exactly: God can NOT sin since he loves everything and does everything IN LOVE! 1 Corin 16:14.
AMK: But man? Even Issac can sin in the process of doing what God asks him.
atoz: exactly. Just as those humans who killed JC did so in Hate...while God, using them to kill, did so in Love.
So the haters are guilty of murder for the SAME act that God did IN LOVE by them!!
AMK: Q) Who was it Issac spoke to on his way to sacrafice his son? Can you remember what was said? I wonder if Issac lied? Ok I am going off track again. I enjoyed reading your comments although it has taken me some time to digest. matter of fact. i am still digesting them
[/quote]
Atoz: beleive me AMK when I say youa re not and can never get off-track since God lvoes all words!
U mean Abraham on his way to kill his son Isaac. see Genesis 22.
in Love,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| AMK wrote: | ....
Well since hits is a popular word lately Yes, We are both big reggie fans actualy. my wife says its the only music she likes to dance too and I am the only one she dances with ever But that saying of Bob Marley,s Only applies to those who can always think positively of the past, regardless of the outcome! See?
|
To think positively is to simply have positiver Love for both positive and negative thoughts.
So you can do it too!smile
| AMK wrote: | ....
| Quote: | Q: can you give without taking?
Or, take without giving? |
Well I would put it this way:
When you give, You get. regardless if your intent was only to give
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yes! When you give, you FIRST have to take or GET from yourself!smile
The real Intent has only to do with Love or Hate, the attitudes in which we give and take!
In Love is the right attitude/intent since you are giving Love to those who CAN'T love you back when you love haters and so youa re giving without any hope of Love in return! see Luke 6:35.
In Hate is the wrong attitude/intent since when you give in hate of taking u MUST want to get back something!
amK:Take without giving? yes and no!
atoz; both: to give is to take from yourself; to take is to give to yourself.
amk:
In closing: I started back at work today. Painting a very very old cathedral in Stavanger called Petrikirken. The job is only as boering as you wan,t to beleave it is :lol[/quote]
Good and gald you are back on thr job!
Hope you lvoe boredom and being bored!
Peace and no stering of unfortunate incidents and NO injuries are VERY boring!smile
in Love of boredom and excitement,
atoz |
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AMK
Kitten
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 147
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | U mean Abraham on his way to kill his son Isaac. see Genesis 22. |
Woops sorry, Yes
By the way I have a tendency also too use norwegian words, Sometimes even norwegian spelling of biblical names. If it ever become too much, Just tell me
On another topic: Oh if only everyone else was as peculiar as me? On this site we seem to be rated for our posts, by receivin silly little names. I am now called Little Guppy I would rather be called:Peculiar person and leave it at that |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Hi AMK,
Not rated according to what you write in your posts...
rather..how many posts you have written.
hugs
lone |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5018
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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AMK & atoz, no need to quote the whole post to answer
a person Just the part you're answering. Just be sure you let the readers know who your quoting or answering.
When you quote the whole post it takes up space, it's just wasted bandwidth!
Thanks,
Nobby |
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wife_of_Dave
Newbie Alert
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Based on the Golden Rule, when God commands us to love |
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| atoz wrote: | does God love His own enemy and His Own enemies?
and
is God already loving His enemies? |
My first thought in reading your question was Romans 5:8-10. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
God loved us even while we were still His enemies. Yet there are verses in scripture which speak of God hating people (Rom 9:13) and seem to speak of those who will never be recipients of God's redemption. So it seems to me that God has a purpose behind why He loves some, even while they are enemies, and why He does not love others ever. What that purpose is, I cannot say for sure since He has not seen fit to reveal it in His word, but it does seem to be tied in some sense to whether the individual will be with Him in eternity.
So I have to ask myself, can I look upon anyone here on this earth and say with absolute certainty that they will never be my brother/sister in Christ and enjoy eternity in Heaven with me? No, I cannot. But I can be certain that Satan and his demons are forever opposed to God, thus making them enemies of God for all eternity. And this is the most important factor in my view. Whether or not a person is my enemy is subject to my own subjective and flawed views and interpretations. But whether or not they are God's enemy is decided by a holy, perfect, all-knowing God. Those who are His enemy actually deserve my hatred. And yet I can only know for sure that Satan and his demons fit that category. This is my justification for hating Satan while obeying Christ's command to never hate any other person. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanx, Nobby.
Love and r,
atoz
Last edited by atoz on Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Based on the Golden Rule, when God commands us to love |
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| wife_of_Dave wrote: |
Those who are His enemy actually deserve my hatred. And yet I can only know for sure that Satan and his demons fit that category. This is my justification for hating Satan while obeying Christ's command to never hate any other person. |
Well said and explained, Wife of Dave!
So let's get more specific:
So do you think that God really means it when he says he loves us unconditionally as in Matthew 5:43-48?
What do you call someone who says he loves you all the way but who really hates you as some things and does NOT mean what he says when he says he loves u under all conditions, unconditionally?
Does God have conditions on his Love for himself and for us?
In other words, is God only loving himself because he is NOT satan?
Is God's condition for loving us that we not be satan?
Wd God hate Himself if he were satan?
If God condemns Satan for hating us,
how can he NOT condemn Himself and us for hating satan back?
Do you love yourself as your own best friend and as your own worse enemy?
Wd you love God if he were your enemy?
see Exodus 23:22.
Can you love a person who is demonpossed while hating the demon at the same time?
Can you love someone who is black while at the same time hating the color black?
Can a man love a woman while hating himself as a woman?
Can you lvoe yourself as your own worse enemy while hating who you consider to be your worse enemy?
Can you lvoe your enemy as yourself while you hate yourself as your own enemy?
Why shd a Dave who hates Satan love you if that Dave sees you as satan or satanic?
Hope those were not too many.smile
Please take your time in answering.
U can onswer one at a time per post.
btw, welcome!
with all Love and Respect,
seeing God in you and you in God,
atoz |
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