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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: Based on the Golden Rule, when God commands us to love |
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our enemies,
does God love His own enemy and His Own enemies?
and
is God already loving His enemies?
I need some guidance and help on these questions since it seems that I am wrong that God loves satan and so are we to love satan, and so many are right that God hates satan and we are to hate satan.
I am willing to change if proved wrong.
So if anyone thinks I am wrong,
please throw me a lifeline and help make me right.
In fact, God commands one and all who know better or think they know better to help save me:
Ezekiel 3:
17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel:
therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18When I say unto the wicked,
Thou shalt surely die;
and thou givest him not warning,
nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life;
the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity;
but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way,
he shall die in his iniquity;
but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Okay?
GOD'S GR:
Matthew 7:
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them:
for this is The Law and The Prophets.
GOD COMMANDING US TO LOVE OUR ENEMIES, WHOEVER WE THINK THEY ARE:
Matthew 5:
43Ye have heard that it hath been said,
Thou shalt
love thy neighbour,
and
hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, ....
Luke 6:
27But I say unto you which hear,
Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,...
35But love ye your enemies,....
SO,
DOES GOD LOVE HIS OWN ENEMIES whoever they are?
DOES GOD COMMAND US TO DO ONE THING: love our enemies: WHILE HE DOES ANOTHER THING or while HE DOES THE SAME THING HE COMMANDS US?
Thanx in advance to one and all.
in the spirit of Love & Respect,
atoz, the dead dog |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6828
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Atoz, everything is not about love and hate. One can not love something and still not hate it.
Does God love satan? Can God look upon evil? If He cannot, then wouldn't it follow that there is an absence of love rather than a presence of hate?
Just a thought. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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oh yes GOD says to love our enemies...nad GOD hates the devil...  ...and it would be nice if for once you put something in context atoz.... |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Atoz, everything is not about love and hate. One can not love something and still not hate it.
Does God love satan? Can God look upon evil? If He cannot, then wouldn't it follow that there is an absence of love rather than a presence of hate?
Just a thought. |
Thanx for your thoughtful reply, RevJP.
How can one not love something and still not hate it, or, how can there be an absence of Love without the presence of Hate?
Can you give me some examples?
And what about Revelation 3:15 in that regard?
Revelation 3:
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot:
I would thou wert cold or hot.
And would it be ok if I said this God:
"I don't hate You, I just don't love You."
or,
" I don't love You, I just don't hate You."?
Wd He be satisfied with that answer or wd he quote Rev 3:15 to me?
And if I said that to you,
wdn't you ask me:
Well, What do you mean, Atoz?
Are you messing with Mr. In B. Tween?
And suppose I said in reply:
I am just indifferent to you, RevJP.
would that satisfy you?
With Love and Respect,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | oh yes GOD says to love our enemies...nad GOD hates the devil... ...and it would be nice if for once you put something in context atoz.... |
Thanx, Tss, for your thoughtful reply too.
Now, since you say that 'God hates the devil,'
and of course we all know that the devil is God's enemy, and the devil is our enemy as per 1 Peter 5:8-9 and Ephes 6:10-12,
and you do say that 'of yes GOD says to love our enemies,'
are you saying that you do believe that God does not obey the Golden Rule?
And, what is the context that I should put everything in to be nice, Tss?
with Love and Respect,
atoz |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Goodmorning again atoz,
If you were a king among the nations, a good king who was fair and equitable and saw to it that only good was administered to the people and then one came in and overthrew your goodness and taxed the people out of their homes and food, slaughtered their young sons and sold their daughters as menpleasers; if this were to touch you personally, then would you be so incliended to love the one who rose in defiance to your kingdom that was for the good of all?
And why did God hate Esau? Was it not because he sold, for a very small price, his inheritance. How could one judge the gift and calling of God so small? How could one trample under foot the Son of God who gave himself for us so that we could have everlasting life?
Remember that Satan is not a person, but is a spiritual power of darkness, spiritual wicked in high places, the father of lies, bent on making sure you do not receive your inheritance.
Who would take it lightly if their children were cheated of their inheritance? Would you who worked so hard to see that your children have one, not regard him as an enemy?
In the flesh, if one were to kidnap your daughter and sell her into whoredom, would you not regard this person as your enemy? Spirituall speaking this is what Satan is doing every day.
In the spiritual the stakes are much higher. The spiritual man is concerned with eternal life and the kingdom of God and certainly in God's eyes, having through His Son, paid the ultimate price to see that you receive your inheritance, would not the one who would steal it from you, not be found dispickable?
In Christ, Judy |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: |
Goodmorning again atoz,
If you were a king among the nations, a good king who was fair and equitable and saw to it that only good was administered to the people and then one came in and overthrew your goodness and taxed the people out of their homes and food, slaughtered their young sons and sold their daughters as menpleasers; if this were to touch you personally, then would you be so incliended to love the one who rose in defiance to your kingdom that was for the good of all?
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Atoz:
Good evening, Nana!
Thanx, Nana, for trying to help me out.
If I were a king among the nations, a good king who was fair and equitable,
then I wd be a good king BECAUSE my very goodness and fairness and equity would BE my 100% Love & Respect for myself and all my subjects.
Then the only good and the only justice and the only fairness and the only equitableness I wd have been administering in the first place to all my subjects and would have been seen to have been administered to the people would have been that Goodness of Unconditional Love, Justice of 100% Equal Love and Equity of One and the Same 100% Love to one and all.
Then IF or WHEN one came in and overthrew your goodness, by that very overthrow he wd have proved that I was MORE hateful than he was, and was NOT as loving as I thought I was!: since with Love permanently rooted and grounded in our hearts, no one shd have been able to overthrow or undermine my Love for that overthrower in the first place.
But if my Love and Respect were really rooted and grounded in my heart, he cd not overthrow our Love and Respect for overthrowers,
and the more he tried, the more our Love and R wd settle as salt does,
and we wd KNOW that he had already overthrown his own Love for himself and for us by hating himself as some words to have done what he did, and so we wd easily overthrow his Hate with our Love and bring him back into the fold of God's Love!;
And so if he taxed the people out of their homes and food, he still could not tax us out of our Love for the taxman and for him, and we wd easily convert him back to paying up all the Tax & the Food of his Love to himself and to all others. Rom 13:8;
and even if he slaughtered their young sons and sold their daughters as menpleasers, he still cd not kill our Love for him as he had already killed his Love for himself, and he wd soon learn that our Love was not for sale, that he cd not buy our Love at any price other than for teh price of nothing, Isaiah 55:1, and so we wd easily revive that Love in him and kill that sin of Hatred in him;
And since this would touch me personally,
then I would be so inclined to never let him touch this: never to touch my Love for me nor for him as one who rose in bad defiance to my kingdom that was for the good of all including the bad him!
And so the Kingdom of Love wd still be standing no matter what else was not! 1 Corin 3:9-23.
What do you think?
Does God alter his Love when we alter or are altered or commit alterations?
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.
Sonnet 116
Shakespeare
So I still feel that, like God, I must love myself and others as good subjects and bad subjects, the fair and the unfair, the perfect and imperfect...so that JC's mind of Love in me is always good and fair and perfect no matter what:matthew 5:43-48.
So please try again.
Replies to the rest under separate covers.
with unconditional Love & Respect,
atoz
Last edited by atoz on Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: |
And why did God hate Esau? Was it not because he sold, for a very small price, his inheritance. How could one judge the gift and calling of God so small? How could one trample under foot the Son of God who gave himself for us so that we could have everlasting life?
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Atoz:
God did not hate Esau any more than God told us to hate our parents or mates or kids or bros or sis or whoever or life in Luke 14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not [or love less by comparison in Love!] his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
God is calling things that are not as though they are, Rom 4:17, to see
who is going to stick to His Line of Love,
and
who is going to use God's Own Word to justify their sin of hating people they want to hate.
Have you ever noticed how similar
esau's name is with
J-esus' name?
So if we think that God hated esau 'because he sold, for a very small price, his inheritance,' then we must also think that God must also hate Jesus for selling His even greater birthright inheritance of being God for nothing and even for less than what esau sold his for, and for even less than nothing:
Philippians 2:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery[did not think he was getting away with anything] to be[by being] equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
But JC said that all hatred of him was without cause: John 15:25: and so all hatred of esau or of any man or being or word is also without cause.
But,
Nana, if you really believe that God hates esau, then to you, how is God different from men whose Love turns to Hate depending on circumstances and conditions?
In Love for jesus and esau, and for God who calls things as they are and as they are not,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: |
Remember that Satan is not a person, but is a spiritual power of darkness, spiritual wicked in high places, the father of lies, bent on making sure you do not receive your inheritance.
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atoz: Well, that is what Steven says.
Well, if you define Satan as sin,
then you can hate the word 'satan' as sin,
but you can only hate the word satan when it means sin......when it means any other meaning you have to lvoe it, smile........
just as God only hates the word 'sin' when it means hatred of any word, BUT loves 'sin' when it means the Wilderness of Sin or sin-bad the sailor or sin-ologist or rai-sin or sin-cere or etc!!smile
In Love of sin as in Mt Sin-ai,
in Hate of the sin of Hate for any word,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: |
Who would take it lightly if their children were cheated of their inheritance? Would you who worked so hard to see that your children have one, not regard him as an enemy?
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The greatest inheritance is Love.
Life or money or faith or property or whatever without Love is not worth having. 1 Corin 13:1-3
So to hate any word or person or cheat or cheater or enemy is to lose my inheritance of Love, which Loss of Love makes any other kind of inheritance worthless.
With Love, I already have everything!
With Love, I have plenty of nothing,
and nothing is plenty for me.
Right?smile
In the Inheritance of Inheritances that Love is,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: |
In the flesh, if one were to kidnap your daughter and sell her into whoredom, would you not regard this person as your enemy? Spirituall speaking this is what Satan is doing every day.
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Yes, I wd regard him as my enemy.
But that is not the solution.
The solution is to love him as my enemy by loving myself as an enemy, my own worse enemy, and so to not sell out my Love nor prostitute out my Love...by hating my enemy and only loving my friends.
in Love for friends who can be my worse enemies and in Love for my enemies who can be my best friends,
atoz
Last edited by atoz on Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: |
In the spiritual the stakes are much higher. The spiritual man is concerned with eternal life and the kingdom of God and certainly in God's eyes, having through His Son, paid the ultimate price to see that you receive your inheritance, would not the one who would steal it from you, not be found dispickable?
In Christ, Judy
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Atoz: Yes, teh one who wd steal it from me must be hateful and be a hater.
But we are supposed to love ourselves as haters so we can love haters as ourselves, and so return Love for their Hate!
If we hate those who hate us, and we condemn those who hate us for hating us, are we not condemning oursleves for hating them back?
Clearly.
So let no man take your Crown of Love by getting you to hate them by getting you to hate yourself and God as any word or name.
Psalm 109:5
And they have rewarded me
evil for good,
and
Hatred for my Love.
in Love of all haters of us as any names so that we give them Love while they are giving us Hate,
atoz |
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AMK
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 156
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So I still feel that, like God, I must love myself and others as good subjects and bad subjects, the fair and the unfair, the perfect and imperfect...so that JC's mind of Love in me is always good and fair and perfect no matter what:matthew 5:43-48. |
Please excuse me for jumping into this thread. I was not sure how to start in this forum, So I read the posts here and have a comment:
Love the person,hate the sin
Jesus sets this example above all.
I think we know what we are supposed to do! "Supposed" being the key word
"Be ye perfect even as I am perfect" Well we know what we are "supposed" to be!
My point: I hope I will have the strength to keep doing,being what Jesus wants me to do/be. I beleave its very clear. I am not Jesus, But God is my creator. God knows we will have trials and obsticles along the path and he knows what they will be, For God made us.
Therefore it is for us to strive for these things regardless of the unforseen or forseen consequences on the journey. (Regardless of how brtal they may be)
Remember:
Love the person,hate the sin
Jesus sets this example above all. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| AMK wrote: | | Quote: | | So I still feel that, like God, I must love myself and others as good subjects and bad subjects, the fair and the unfair, the perfect and imperfect...so that JC's mind of Love in me is always good and fair and perfect no matter what:matthew 5:43-48. |
Please excuse me for jumping into this thread. I was not sure how to start in this forum, So I read the posts here and have a comment:
Love the person,hate the sin
Jesus sets this example above all.
I think we know what we are supposed to do! "Supposed" being the key word
"Be ye perfect even as I am perfect" Well we know what we are "supposed" to be!
My point: I hope I will have the strength to keep doing,being what Jesus wants me to do/be. I beleave its very clear. I am not Jesus, But God is my creator. God knows we will have trials and obsticles along the path and he knows what they will be, For God made us.
Therefore it is for us to strive for these things regardless of the unforseen or forseen consequences on the journey. (Regardless of how brtal they may be)
Remember:
Love the person,hate the sin
Jesus sets this example above all. |
Amk!
Thanx for jumping in or interupting or cutting in!
We love interrupters!smile....so that our Love in never interrupted!
U've got it: Love the sinner and hate the sin!
Q: So since God loves the just and unjust, the good and the bad, the friend and the enemy, Matthew 5:43-48
what is my sin:
hating the enemy, hating the unjust and hating the bad person,
or
not feeding them food, for instance?
Q: Is it ok to hate my enemy as long as i show him Love by feeding him?
or,
must I first love my enemy from my heart and then feed him in Love?
Thanx again for cutting in.
in Love and r,
atoz |
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holly102869
Show Poodle
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Central, Florida USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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AMK,
You wrote | Quote: | Please excuse me for jumping into this thread. I was not sure how to start in this forum, So I read the posts here and have a comment:
Love the person,hate the sin
Jesus sets this example above all.
I think we know what we are supposed to do! "Supposed" being the key word
"Be ye perfect even as I am perfect" Well we know what we are "supposed" to be!
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You have it...
Some of us on this site choose to see everthing through the eyes of love. We strive to learn how to live better and have love for everything that God created.
We understand that there is a lot of evil in the world and want it to be a better place. I personally have realized that when I am angry, I make everything around me worse.
God loves everything he created but does not love the bad things we do. We should all strive to be like him. Because once we see the love around us and love all the things around us the bad things are not so bad. God will give us the stregnth to handle anything that comes our way.
| Quote: | My point: I hope I will have the strength to keep doing,being what Jesus wants me to do/be. I beleave its very clear. I am not Jesus, But God is my creator. God knows we will have trials and obsticles along the path and he knows what they will be, For God made us.
Therefore it is for us to strive for these things regardless of the unforseen or forseen consequences on the journey. (Regardless of how brtal they may be)
Remember:
Love the person,hate the sin
Jesus sets this example above all. |
God is truely with you. He will take care of the ones who want to be like him.
You are on the right path... |
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