 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Biblical Laws |
| Gospel trumphs Old Testament laws |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Old Testament Laws are completely invalid |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| You have to find the truth yourself, new or old testament |
|
100% |
[ 1 ] |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| maybe she is saying with all the guys becoming eunochs...what else are girls to do.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3171
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tss wrote: | | maybe she is saying with all the guys becoming eunochs...what else are girls to do.... |
very funny 
sorry FFT. I was commenting about Holly's mix-up between what Jesus said and what Paul said and was just saying that Jesus did comment on marrying and not marrying, but used eunuch as a figurative example.
I would say Paul is expounding on this. Some would be able to figuratively castrate themselves and devote all of their attention to the Lord.
Not a comment on lesbianism.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pato
Kitten
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 130
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: lesbianism.......... |
|
|
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. F6 19For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. F7 God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.
24So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.
26That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.
I love the way it's worded here in this translation.
Also:-
Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
23"A man must never defile himself by having sexual intercourse with an animal, and a woman must never present herself to a male animal in order to have intercourse with it; this is a terrible perversion.
24"Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the people I am expelling from the Promised Land have defiled themselves. 25As a result, the entire land has become defiled. That is why I am punishing the people who live there, and the land will soon vomit them out. 26You must strictly obey all of my laws and regulations, and you must not do any of these detestable things. This applies both to you who are Israelites by birth and to the foreigners living among you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5847
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pato wrote: | | I love the way it's worded here in this translation. |
Romans 1 is a condemnation of idol worship.
| pato wrote: | | Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin. |
Leviticus 18:22 is a condemnation of a particular kind of religious ritual (temple prostitution). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Lesbianism is not addressed in the Bible? |
|
|
| John Sanjay wrote: | I know people usually cite Leviticus as evidence that God thinks it is a sin for a man to lie with another man:
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
If you read this chapter nowhere does he mention that it is a sin or abmoniation for a woman to lie with a woman. So does his mean lesbianism is OK?
It seems like a double standard? I appreciate any insight. |
Hi John,
Welcome.
God's Law is Love: Matthew 22:36-40. Levit 19:17-18, 24.
God loves all words and their opposites: matthew 5:43-48.
Sin is the breaking of the law of Love: 1 John 3:4,
therefore,
by hating any word or its opposite, which words cover everything and everyone and its opposite.
So just by hating being straight or by hating being gay, str8s and gays are sinning in their hearts before they think or say or do anything else.
It is therefore this sin of hatred which confers sin on any and on every act and aspect of life.
For example, to hate any word is sinful,
and since Hatred for any word kills or steals or adulterates or lies about the Love that that word really deserves, to hate any word is of itself murder and stealing and lying and adultery, and is breaking all of the Ten Commandments by spirit of Hate.
So when it comes to sex,
God is saying that the sin of hatred for any word in any relationship is what makes that relationship sinful, no matter if the sex is gay or str8 or even if there is NO sex going on.
So, marriage between man and a woman is sinful if the man married his wife out of Hate for all other or for any other woman, or if the woman married the man out of hate of any other man or any other men.
Sex before marriage is only a sin because of the hatred either fornicator has for self as unsexed or as NOT having sex or as foolish virgins or as etc.
And since Love is involved between the partners, for that Love God often blesses that relationship with Life, the life of a newly conceived being, even tho the Hatred already involved turns that blessing into a...curse.
So too same sex relationships are only sinful when either partner hates, for instance, opposite sex relationships, or hates any other person of the same gender or of the opposite gender.
Forexample:
Any lesbian who hates men or any other women is sinning by hating, and is NOT sinning by having lesbian sex: but her sin of hatred makes lesbian sex sinful.
Our societies worldwide are so addicted to hatred, that hatred isa ccepted as normal, and so the sin has to be the act or action or the reaction.
In Love for all opposite words,
most people wd tend to be straight,
and those who were born gay wd be loved and tolerated in Love too.
God wrote the Bible in Love, and so wants us to read it in Love so we can read Love or God into it, and so get the whole truth or get all the truths on any one subject and on all subjects out of what is IN those written words.
God is against the sin of Hatred for any word, which words cover all living beings, places and things.
This verse :22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.:
when read in Love reads like this and the Love with which it is read MAGNIFIES THAT one verse to mean all of this:
Thou shalt not lie with mankind IN HATE OF WOMANKIND NOR ANY OTHER MAN, as with womankind: THAT HATRED is abomination.
Thou shalt not lie with WOmankind IN HATE OF MANKIND OR OF ANY OTHER WOMAN, as with mankind: THAT HATRED is abomination.
Thou A MAN shalt not lie with WOmankind IN HATE OF ANY WOMAN OR MAN OR ANY WORD, as with womankind: THAT HATRED is abomination.
Thou A WOMAN shalt not lie with mankind IN HATE OF ANY OTHER MAN OR WOMAN OR WORD, as with mankind: THAT HATRED is abomination.
And of course, to read it that way, you first have to love or start to love yourself as all words and their opposites.
Then the whole Bible and all of life and all Holy Books begin to make perfect sense.
Hope that helps.
in Godly Love and Respect for all str8's and gays,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| FFT wrote: | It only calls male homosexual activity abomination when it's translated without a knowledge of the historical background for the law.
It's condemning a particular type of religious ritual, not relationships. |
FFT,
You are more right than not: it is not condemning gay sex any more than it is condemning str8 sex.
What it is condemning is a particular type of religious attitude, which has become ritualistic hatred for self and others as any word.
But without knowledge of the Agapological back-grounding of all law, the wrong thing is always condemned.
Knowledge of Love
"Is a strange brooch in this all-hating world."
Richard II [V, 5]
with L&r,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| holly102869 wrote: | Jesus says in Cornithians; That he wishes we could all be like him and not be with anyone. If you can not control your sexual life you should get married. I don't see any arguing on this.
Please don't get me wrong I could care less about the issue of homosexuality. I have friends who are and I am not going to judge their way of life. If they are happy good for them.
I feel that if you are going to look at homosexuality. You have to see a man and a man together is the same as a woman and a woman.
This issue of this argument just gets christian to judge others. It will not get you to the divine place you wish to be.
I personally don't care what other people do or don't ,they will not get me my salvation. |
Well said, Holly.
And it is quite ok for you to say JC or God spoke in 1 Corin thru Paul!smile...especially since JC said the same thing directly in matthew 19!
with Love and r,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| holly102869 wrote: | Your right it is Paul. I'm sorry I got it mixed up.
The point is still are you going to be saved by a homosexual (Male or Female)? No....
Leave them alone and love one another. Not sexualy but with your heart. Let them make their mistakes while we all make ours. The only one who truely knows the truth is God and we will find it out one day. The day of Judgement. So lets not judge. |
Wow!
Thanx, Holly.
in Love,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5847
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| atoz wrote: | | What it is condemning is a particular type of religious attitude, which has become ritualistic hatred for self and others as any word. |
No. It condemns temple prostitution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| FFT wrote: | | atoz wrote: | | What it is condemning is a particular type of religious attitude, which has become ritualistic hatred for self and others as any word. |
No. It condemns temple prostitution. |
Yes, FFT, and the basis of temple protitution, TP, is the prostitution of Love by selling Love only on certain conditions, and paying Hatred for free when those conditions are not met.
In other words,
when i love you only on condition of you NOT being bad,
and I hate you as bad,
I am selling or prostituting my Love to you for you being good,
and
I am a worse ho for Prostituting my Love & Respect than any 'ho' selling sex or Love for money in any temple or house in any state...since me prostituting Love is the very basis that justifies any prostitute for selling sex or Love for money!
So, as usual, the basis of TP is the sin of Hatred in it.
Isaiah 55
1Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money;
come ye, buy, and eat;
yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
btw, you know what they call prostitutes in iceland?
Frostitutes. smile
With Unconditional Love, UL, for prostitutes of Love and sex and etc, which UL can only be earned for free and for the price of no price,
atoz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
antiaging
Little Goldfish
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 51
Location: New Orleans LA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Lesbianism is not addressed in the Bible? |
|
|
| John Sanjay wrote: | I know people usually cite Leviticus as evidence that God thinks it is a sin for a man to lie with another man:
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
If you read this chapter nowhere does he mention that it is a sin or abmoniation for a woman to lie with a woman. So does his mean lesbianism is OK?
It seems like a double standard? I appreciate any insight. |
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:
for even their women did change the natural use into that which is
against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of
the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men
working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that
recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit
such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have
pleasure in them that do them.
[Hell is called the second death, in the bible.] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5847
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| antiaging wrote: | Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:
for even their women did change the natural use into that which is
against nature: |
| FFT wrote: | | Romans 1 is a condemnation of idol worship. |
Try actually, you know, reading it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bat'Ur
Little Guppy
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 31
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: No Interpretation |
|
|
Generally, I believe the best interpretation is no interpretation regarding the Bible. It says what it says and tells us not to add or subtract from it. Simple enough for me.
That being said, the OT is very specific about what's Ok and not Ok sexually. All else is opinion. It says: no men-on-men, no men-on-animal, no women-on-animal. Period.
There is no mention, either way, regarding women-on-women. This may be because no exchange of seed is involved in this scenario, but that's just a guess based on how God feels about seed. It could also be to encourage harmony in multiple-wife households, but again, that's just a guess.
-B |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5847
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bat'Ur wrote: | | Generally, I believe the best interpretation is no interpretation regarding the Bible. It says what it says and tells us not to add or subtract from it. Simple enough for me. |
Then you're instead stuck with the interpretation of those who have translated it.
| Bat'Ur wrote: | | That being said, the OT is very specific about what's Ok and not Ok sexually. All else is opinion. It says: no men-on-men, no men-on-animal, no women-on-animal. Period. |
All of which were condemnations of particular religious rituals contemporary to the writing of Leviticus. Not that bestiality is necessarily okay, but it's not the condemnation of homosexual relationships certain modern Christians would like it to be.
| Bat'Ur wrote: | | There is no mention, either way, regarding women-on-women. This may be because no exchange of seed is involved in this scenario, but that's just a guess based on how God feels about seed. It could also be to encourage harmony in multiple-wife households, but again, that's just a guess. |
I'm guessing that you're alluding to Onan. The problem with Onan wasn't that he was effectively masturbating, it was that he was obligated by Jewish law to impregnate his dead brother's wife. He enjoyed the sex too much to let it end by getting her pregnant; that's where the condemnation comes in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evee
Moderator
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 582
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Good analysis, FFT. Sometimes it gets too exhausting to those who already have their minds preset as what to think from how they were brainwashed into thinking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
