Rhetoric regarding aiding the enemy

45degreeN

Wikipedia has an interesting story about the collection of about 20 women who were called Tokyo Rose and the one who was convicted of Treason by the US.

Iva Toguri D'Aquino was a naturalized American citizen but while the Japanese were planning their Pearl Harbor attack she chose to travel to her native Japan and when hostilities broke she was unable to return to America. At no time did she call herself Tokyo Rose. However she did in fact work as a personality on the Japanese radio broadcasts.

It was the Army which referred to the Japanese radio broadcast as Tokyo Rose not the Japanese. Even though the FBI and our other intelligence officers found nothing against her she was still convicted of treason and sentenced to 10 years and $10,000 fine. President Ford pardoned her much later of course.

Currently we have many of the Bush people declaring others (mostly democrats) to be aiding the enemy or encouraging the enemy or emboldening the enemykey phrases which might be interpreted in the same light as what Tokyo Rose did. Some choose to think that these charges are mere political theater, but to the cadre of Bush camp followers they are fighting words.

There are many ways to aid the enemy and only one is financial. Point in fact some of Bush's supporters have brought out the word 'treason' when describing the actions of the democrats. So far it has not gotten to the stage where legal action is about to happen but it could, especially with the extraordinary amount of congressional committee hearings on the failures of the Bush administration and their lying to congress and the American public.

We might yet see impeachment hearings, for both Cheney and Bush and they might as well spend the political capitol and go the full way and threaten treason hearings at the same time. Wouldn't that be a mess.

It is possible that none of this speculation ever happens but the rhetoric that is being thrown around lately seems to be leading up to something besides just an election.
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atoz · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject:

45n: Rhetoric regarding aiding the enemy.

The greatest aid to any enemy is when we say we hate that enemy...since that hatred just rejustifies that enemy hating us further and hating us previously.

The greatest defeat for any enemy is when we say we love that enemy..since it is that Love that conquers the hatred in the enemy that is making him him our enemy, and since it is that Love that allows our enemies to pre-know that they have already lost the battle for hearts and minds no matter if they win or lose!

iin constant Love for friends and enemies that wins even when losing and having lost, and double wins winning and having won,
atoz

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

I agree the rhetoric has been pretty strong.

When you have the Senate Majority leader stating twenty seven minutes after the serge went into effect that it had failed and we now have lost the war... strong rhetoric.

When a senior senator (Dick Durbin) compares our soldiers to Nazi's... the rhetoric is pretty strong.

When another senior senator, and former presidential candidate, calls our soldiers terrorists for conducting clearing operations during the night... the rhetoric has grown pretty strong.

When the number 3 leader in the house states that it would be bad for their party if the surge worked... it has gone beyond rhetoric.

When, what most consider a creditable war hero and senior congressman, makes the assertion that our soldiers are murders and rapists... without trail... without even an investigation to see if a crime had been committed... I would say it has gone beyond rhetoric and that there is a political party in our country bent on ensuring that we lose in Iraq and they are willing to say just about anything they can to ensure that it happens. All the while stating they support our troops...

Bite me is the only rhetoric I want them to hear from me. Confused or disgusted

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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

45degreeN · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:57 am Post subject:

Rhetoric is a debate technique used to convince someone of the premise, it disregards the truth and is willing to shade the facts (spins them) so that only a black and white interpretation is asked to be made even if the issue is rather complex.

It seems both sides (yes even the democrats) have been using rhetoric rather than calm logical arguments. Even though it was the Neo-cons who began sing Push polls as their political techniques rather than more traditional styles of campaigning. It was Karl Rove himself during the Nixon administration who began using the people themselves rather than the candidates to move the political agenda along. Bending neighbor against neighbor in their pursuit of election victories.

As an independent I have been trying to deal with both sides blasting away and I cant hardly figure out which side to argue with first, I find the whole process rather woeful.

By accusing the other side "a supporter of the enemy" it serves to polarize the whole process rather than mete out logical discourse, and frankly it is not true. What happened to the "loyal opposition". As the rhetoric gets louder and louder I certainly hope that the democrats dont treat the republicans the same way as the republicans have treated the democrats or this whole country may dissolve into warring camps and nothing will get done. Cant we all just get along?
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Plotinus · Big Lion Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 968 Location: Canada

“[t]he people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”

Hermann Goering

Has there been any war in which this argument has not been made? Surely the legitimacy of the argument is no greater than the legitimacy of the war effort. In fact, peaceful dissent is always legitimate to those who believe in democracy.
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Plotinus · Big Lion Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 968 Location: Canada

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

45degreeN · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject:

No, absolutely, this is part and parcel of the rhetoric that is ruining our country, it seems there is no middle ground any more, only the extreme messages get through the filters so both parties use the extreme instead of some less radical way of speaking. politician don't ever seem to communicate any more they just *Baby Batter Projectile* their latest polemic instead of making some sort of considered and logical message.

I'm for throwing all the b******s out and electing real citizens into their soon vacant posts. I dont expect it to happen though.
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Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123

Plotinus · Big Lion Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 968 Location: Canada

Let's take a look at what Durbin said:

"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings."

Note that the criticism is on the "mad regime" not the soldiers. The word "soldiers" does not appear in the quote. It is really a criticism of the White House, not the soldiers.
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One would never discover the limits of soul, should one traverse every road -- so deep a measure does it possess.

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45degreeN · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:58 am Post subject:

The deputy secretary of defense (a neo-con by the way) was cited accusing Hillary of "emboldening the enemy" (a treasonous offense if true) too many times to cite, other Neo-cons have said things similarly. The whole issue of a loyal opposition who hold contrary opinions yet is loyal to America has been lost.

We have a tradition of freedom of speech here and making empty accusations of 'treasonous speech' raises the level of rhetoric to sky high proportions. Nothing I can imagine would raise my emotional defenses higher than being publicly accused of treason especially if we see our country engaged in something we not only think is wrong but ruinous like this particular war.

Part of what we need here in America is greater respect for others opinions. Everyone need not agree for things to get done but issues that reflect upon life or death like war need a thorough venting not just some brief assumption that the "president must be right" so lets do it. It is partly why we offer so many chances for condemned convicts to appeal so that every chance can be offered for the ultimate penalty is not done incorrectly. I suspect that you would like all death penalty cases to be executed sooner rather than later.
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Plotinus · Big Lion Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 968 Location: Canada

45degreeN · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject:

Don't you think that we have any identifiable enemies?

Anyway can we agree that the rhetoric that we hear so much of, is not real communication it is merely swapping epithets. (Probably for the purpose of getting elected at this point in time.)
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