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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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 Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Twoputt,
| Quote: | | Okay, so you are ascribing Jesus character as reflective of the Father's? If so, that is accurate as far as I understand it, and I'm fairly certain you know Christadelphians hold to this idea as well. |
With one importent distinction, Jesus/Michael has personality, is an individual and is the creator of our local universe. Personality is always the gift of the Father, all personality has origin in the Father. I believe Jesus to be a divine son of the Father.
| Quote: | | Lucifier? I'm so surprised you reject so much of the Bible yet hold on so dearly to the erroneous teachings of mainstream Christianity. |
Most UB readers will tell you that having read the UB they are surprised at just how much truth is in the Bible. Statements which we were previously quite skeptical of suddenly make a lot of sense in light of claims of the UB.
Personally I see a lot of things in the collection of literature which make up the Bible.
I never did believe in a "devil figure" as taught by Christianity or a place like hell, it just didn't make sense that God would allow such a being to co-exist with such God like powers etc.
What the UB says is that Lucifer was an administrator in the spiritual world, where the celestial beings reside and serve the Father and us. He had no power to invade the sanctity of the soul nor the will of man. What few demons their were could only cause trouble by invading the mind of mentally unstable individuals or those who usually saught a relationship with the evil ones. Satan was his assistant and the Prince of this world a co-conspirator.
All these rebels have long since been locked up, Jesus defeated the "prince of this world".
In CA theology I have been taught that Gods intentions for this world were compromised by some kind of talking beast, a beast of high intelligence, speaking the same tongue as a recently created Adam & Eve and having some foresight into Gods requirements for the two. Further I am told that, while the Bible stories speak of Satan as a volitional being, he is not but rather the personification of evil in the actions of means hearts.
So I have a difficult time with that story as well.
| Quote: | Believing in God and being lead by God are two different things. We can belive that God wrote a book (bible/Urantia) but we need to have a personal relationship with him.
LOL...I like how you capitalized 'Urantia' but didn't bother with 'bible'. So, you hold the UB as more inspired than the error-ridden 'bible'? |
Nothing intended by forgetting to capitalize the Bible, the UB and Bible are related to each other as far as I can tell.
The UB makes this frank admission:
"The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia".
Colter |
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 702
Location: WV
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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 And if you belive this, I've got some ocean front property in West Virginia you gotta see. I swear it's true. When the fog rolls in you can see it clear as anything. |
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Rocket
House Cat
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Right on with that c ballard. I don't have the slightest idea where these people come up with these oulandish things they post on this board.
For heavens sake, sit down and read the Bible and in the future try paying it a little respect by capitalizing the "B"/
The Bible is the true word of God. I'lll say it one more time; The Bible is the true word of God. He inspired it, He gave the commandments including the one that gave us our Messiah Yeshua. |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Most Christians of today have the same closed minds, the same hard hearts, the same hypocrisy, the same enslavement to authority, the same primitive superstitions, and the same worship of idols (scripture) that the religious fanatics did who put Christ to death.
"Primitive man lived a life of superstitious bondage to religious fear. Modern, civilized men dread the thought of falling under the dominance of strong religious convictions. Thinking man has always feared to be held by a religion. When a strong and moving religion threatens to dominate him, he invariably tries to rationalize, traditionalize, and institutionalize it, thereby hoping to gain control of it. By such procedure, even a revealed religion becomes man-made and man-dominated. Modern men and women of intelligence evade the religion of Jesus because of their fears of what it will do to them--and with them. And all such fears are well founded. The religion of Jesus does, indeed, dominate and transform its believers, demanding that men dedicate their lives to seeking for a knowledge of the will of the Father in heaven and requiring that the energies of living be consecrated to the unselfish service of the brotherhood of man".
Colter |
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TwoPutt
Fierce Puppy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Colter,
I trust you had an enjoyable time.
Here's my dilemma....the problem you and I have is we don't have the same standard. You use the Bible where it suits you and throw away what doesn't. You bring up points that relate to 'mainstream Christianity' in order to ridicule it, then try to lump me in with what you think is popular CA theology in order to do the same thing. All the while you promote the UB which I have found is as far-fetched as the Book of Mormon in terms of authenticity.
Sorry friend, I think you are a good guy but I'm not persuaded by your thinking.
Again, what amazes me about you is how you degrade 'mainstream Christianity' as pagan, superstitious, etc. yet hold on to certain doctrines that are clearly pagan and superstitious. Then you grumble about a talking snake in the garden. I don't get it. A donkey talked to Balaam (BTW the first use of the word for satan is used in that event)....I guess that wasn't true either.
Sheesh, go figure.
Regards,
2P
Oh yeah, I've been taking lessons lately and am finally keeping it on the fairway....for the most part  |
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Colter
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 409
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Twoputt,
Yes, I had a fantastic time, thanks.
I understand your dilemma, it's a fair criticism of my apparent position. Others have made the same observation. I will try to explain it.
There are many sects who consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God and yet each sect has a different opinion of what that is. Authority is the be all and end all of church doctrine and that authority is derived from the sacred scripture. This is true of ALL religions wherein "scripture" has evolved.
Take for example the American Civil war, there are thousands of books on that historic event with varying interpretations of why, attempted history revisionism, political bias and the like, yet we all agree that a war did happen. That's how I view the scripture, filtered through the mind of man, revised by racial pride, influenced by revelation and reinterpreted again by sectarian bias.
Colter |
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kejonn
Show Poodle
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Colter wrote: | Hi Two putt,
" Before Abraham was I AM"
All who were present on this occasion knew what Jesus meant, their visceral reaction is an indication of what his words implied.
Jesus had an opportunity to clarify himself had he been misunderstood or misquoted by an evil Trinitarian in the crowd. He did not recant what he said nor is there a problem in the translation. |
Hi, new here but I thought I'd jump in the "fray". I see this used so many times by Trinitarians that it gets old and almost comical. But what happens is that context is rarely used anymore. Oh well.
Look at all of chapter 8. The Jews said Yeshua had a "demon" twice already (v48, 52) so they were very suspicious of this man. When he claimed to know Abraham and then closed off with "Before Abraham was I am" he sealed their opinion of him. Not as YHWH, but as someone who practiced some sort of spiritism or who claimed to be able to raise the dead.
Lev 20:27 'Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.' "
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Deu 18:10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
Deu 18:11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
As you can see, practicing spiritism was a stonable offense.
medium - A person thought to have the power to communicate with the spirits of the dead or with agents of another world or dimension.
The key to this is verses 52-53:
Jhn 8:52 The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.'
Jhn 8:53 "Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?" |
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