ROMANS CHAPTER SIX AND SEVEN

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

ROMANS CHAPTER SIX AND SEVEN

ROMANS SIX & SEVEN:

Romans 6:1-2, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?

We are dead to sin! Ironically enough man can only continue in sin if he remains under the law. Sin is the transgression of the law.

4:15, “Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

7:6, “But now we are delivered from the law…”

6:3) “Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

This is not speaking of a physical baptism; it is speaking of a spiritual baptism, when we were joined with him in death, when he died for sin in the flesh at the cross.

6:4) “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

6:5) “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

We were planted in the likeness of his death (we are no more enemies, 5:10) so that we might join him in the likeness of his resurrection at the sound of the last trump.

6:6) “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

That old man (sinful man of the flesh, some call it the sin nature) was crucified with him at the cross some 2000 years ago. We are no longer servants of sin.

6:7) “For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Because we died with him we are free from sin.

6:8-10) “Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once…”

We had to be free of sin to live with him. Christ will never deal with sin again (Heb 9:28) This death that we joined him in is not a continual process or a personal experience. We do not die daily to sin as some interpret the scriptures to say, to their own destruction
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To judge after the flesh (the flesh is dead) one remains under the law (prefers the law to grace) and is doomed, not because of sin in the flesh (it is dead), but because they have not believed (John 3:16). When Jesus told the woman at the well to go and sin no more, he was not saying, go clean up your act, he was saying, go and sin no more; believe! He was saying to her:

6:11, “Likewise reckon (conclude) ye also yourselves to be dead (not dying daily), indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

To grasp hold of this awesome salvation you cannot think that you are dying daily to sin or that forgiveness of sin is a continual process. The length, breadth, depth and height of our salvation is that we were freed of sin when Christ died at the cross once and for all.

6:12-13, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”

Sin reigns in your mortal body if you are under the law. The law judges after the flesh and sin consciousness is the result. How do you know if you are under the law? Ask yourself if you are a sinner? If the answer is yes, then you are under the law. The answer should be no I am not a sinner, I died with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.

The lust of the flesh is to attain righteousness by the works of the law and is futile. The law pin-points sin and sin consciousness is the result. He came to free us of sin to our very conscience so that we can stand unashamed at his coming. Unbelief is the sin that will condemn in judgment (Rev 21:8). We are servants to righteousness by faith in the operation of God.

6:14, “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”

Sin has dominion over you if you are under the law. But we are not under the law! Grace has no meaning without the forgiveness of sin.
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6:15, “What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.”

The question here is, if we are free of sin why can’t we continue under the law? (After all it is the popular thing to do and if we remain under the law we will not be persecuted). God forbid. To continue in sin (under the law) is to fail to acknowledge that you have been freed from sin.

6:16, “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

If one continues in the law he is a servant to sin. If one walks in ‘the faith’ that the flesh is dead one walks in obedience to righteousness.

6:17-18, “But God be thanked, that ye were (under the law) the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

Before the cross, before the body of sin was destroyed, before the flesh died, man was a servant to sin, his mind was defiled by his actions and he had no peace and was an enemy of God.

5:10, “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved (given eternal life) by his life.”

After the cross, when the body of sin was destroyed, when the flesh died to sin, we became servants to righteousness. We have accessed this grace by ‘faith’ in the body of Christ wherein we stand, 5:2.

I John 3:1-2, “Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God…Beloved, now are we the sons of God…”

6:19), “I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.”

According to Chapter 7, Paul is speaking to those who know the law. Under the law the flesh is infirm; under grace the flesh is dead. Under the law ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; under grace ye yield your members servant to righteousness unto holiness.

6:20-21, “For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed: for the end of those things is death.”

Before Christ came, under the law we were servants of sin and free from righteousness. Under the law there is no fruit unto holiness. The conscience is defiled and one cannot love his brother because he judges him after the flesh.

6:22, “BUT NOW BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, AND BECOME SERVANTS TO GOD, YE HAVE YOUR FRUIT UNTO HOLINESS, AND THE END EVERLASTING LIFE.”

It took being made free from sin to become the servants of God (a sinner is an enemy to God, 5:10). The fruit of holiness results in everlasting life.

6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

The gift of God is eternal Life and that gift came to us by the good news that Jesus set us free from sin in the flesh. The ordinance of ‘the wages of sin is death’ was nailed to the cross.

Abraham was deemed righteous 430 years before the law came because he believed God. Do we believe God? No longer is our head to hang down and the feeble knees, but make a straight path for our feet, for that which is lame (in sin) will be cast out.

Hebrews 9:28, “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
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ROMANS SEVEN:

Romans 7: l, “Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

If we had not died with Christ the law would still have dominion over man. But we are dead and our lives are hid with God in Christ. Yes, we reckon ourselves to have died with Christ.

7:2, “For the woman which hath a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.”

Speaking in physical terms, the same as when a husband dies a woman is loosed from the law that bound her to that marriage. Likewise when the body of sin died then one is loosed from the law of sin and death.

7:3 “So then if, while her husband liveth, she is married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.”

If we are to walk in grace and remain under the law then we would be adulterers.) we would be committing adultery, but the other man (the law) is dead so that we would be no adulterers, though we be married to Christ.

7:4, “Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”

The mystery of godliness is that we are dead and our lives are hid with God in Christ (Col 3:3). Under the law one cannot bring forth fruit unto righteousness because the law judges by sin in the flesh; under grace we can bring forth fruit unto righteousness because we do not judge one another after the flesh.

7:5-6, “For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”

Before Christ went to the cross man was in the flesh and the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Under the law man is counted as a sinner, but we are delivered from the law and counted as servants of righteousness. At the cross sin died and as a result the law died (became of no effect).

7:7, “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid, Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”

The law is not sin. The law is just and good and holy! We would not have known the evil that we were delievered from if we had not known the law. We would not have known how wretched the flesh was if it were not for the law. We would not have known that in the flesh our desire to do good, we could not attain to. We would not have know that in the flesh there is no good thing, For that which I do, I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I

7:8, “But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Do we ever spout off at the mouth in anger when we know that kindness would have gotten the best results? Do we ever yield to the temptations of the flesh and we know that we shouldn’t, but we do it anyway? Do we ever curse when our flesh is taxed to the max? We can go on and on about our stumbling in the flesh, but praise God, there is no stumbling in us because Christ delivered us from this wretched man? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I serve the law of God; the law of faith, but with the flesh the law of sin.

7:9, “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The law pertained to sin in the flesh. Without the law we would not have been able to recognize how exceeding sinful sin in the flesh was. Without the law man could not be legally charged guilty of sin in the flesh and be legally redeemed. Without the law we would be unable to see the power behind the cross (the body of sin that was destroyed) nor would we be able to walk in the faith. At the cross, when the flesh died to sin, faith begat substance, Heb 11:1. Yes, the law was all important, but grace is better.

7:10-11, “And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”

The law is good, but if I were to think that righteousness comes by the works of the law then it has deceived me and slew me.

10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

7:12, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”

One can find no fault with the law. It is not the law that is at fault, it was the flesh, but the flesh died with Christ.

7:13, “Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.”

The law was good and given that sin in the flesh might appear sin. It was a schoolmaster to show the exceedingly sinfulness of the flesh and to show us our desperate need for a savior.

7:14, “For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.”

The law is a spiritual message to the carnal man who was sold under sin and death.

7:15-19, “For that which I do, I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is n o more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would, I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.”

Refer to the example in 7:8.

7:20-21, “Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.”

When God created man he created him from the dust of the earth with a fleshly body and that man of the flesh was made subject to vanity, 8:20.

7:22, “For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

When Christ was crucified in the flesh we were crucified with him and the body of sin was destroyed. And now I delight in the law of God (the law of faith) after the inward man:

7:23, “But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The ‘law of sin’ wars against the ‘law of God’: the ‘law of faith’. The law that pertains to the flesh sees sin. It does not witness that the flesh is dead. It does not witness that the old man died with Christ. The old man is of Satan and screams of your faults. If one does not exalt the knowledge of God over the carnal mind then he will remain a sinner in his mind. He did not put on the armor of God. He is not washed with the washing of water by the word. He cannot see the new creature he became. He does not reckon that sin in the flesh is dead. He will be guilty of not believing in God and his redemption.

7:24, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Paul is speaking of the wretched man under the law. Who can deliver this wretched man from the body of sin and death? How is it possible? What strange act could save man hopelessly trapped in the body of sin? Satan couldn’t figure it out. The angels couldn’t figure it out. The prophets wanted the details. The Jews who were given the oracles of God could not see with their eyes, nor hear with their ears.

Isaiah 28:21, “…that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.”

7:25, “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

It is by faith in the operation of God that we were delivered from the ‘body of sin’. It is not by the works of the law, but with our mind that we serve the true and living God. For without faith it is impossible to please God.

CONCLUSION:

Christ came in the flesh to die for sin in the flesh (Rom 9:5& 7:17-18). When he died on the cross the flesh died and the law was fulfilled. The ordinance of the law that condemned a man to death was nailed to the cross.

Matthew 5:17, “Jesus said, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”

Did his death free us from sin in the flesh once and for all? The law and the prophets testify that we were.

Hebrews 10:10, “…because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.”

Isaiah 1:18, “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as now; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”

Isaiah 33:24, “And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity.”

John 1:29, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

John 8:36, “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

When Christ died on the cross for sin in the flesh we died with him (6:5). We were baptized into his death (not water baptism). The ‘old man’ of sin was crucified with him (6:6).

Colossians 2:11-12, “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism wherein also ye are raised with him through the faith of the operation of God…”

How was the law fulfilled? Because the law that pertained to the flesh is of no effect if sin in the flesh was destroyed.

The law no longer has a body of sin; the body of sin was destroyed at the cross; the old sinner man died. The law was written for a sinful man and we have been set free of sin in the flesh by the works of Christ.

1 Tim 1:9, “Knowing this that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murders of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers.

It was never meant for us to believe that Christ only took past sins. To remain in sin is to (by ones carnal mind) remain under the law. Sins are past and we are not guilty of our blunders and errors. God sees no fault in the flesh. This strange salvation is awesome, who could imagine it!

Christ is the savior of all men, especially those who believe.

In Christ, Judy

MoJo · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:25 am Post subject:

That was awesome, Judy. Thanx for all your work.

I still experience slight confusion concerning some things you have said previously. I need to think about it. Meanwhile, that was great.

Very Happy

atoz · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: Re: ROMANS CHAPTER SIX AND SEVEN

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Hi Mojo,

Thanks for the good word.

Hi atoz,

atoz · Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:52 am Post subject:

Thanx again, Judy.
Great answers you have!smile

So here is another better clarifying question for you to answer for me:

How is the sin of Hatred the spirit of murder?
In other words, what is murdered, what is killed by my Hate, what dies, what is dead, what dies in me, the death of what in me is caused when I hate God or you or any person?

Reference scriptures for you:

1 John 3:
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren.
He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer:
and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

John 15:
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law,
They hated me without a cause.

Matthew 5:
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;
and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you,
That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
and whosoever shall say to his brother,
Raca, shall be in danger of the council:
but whosoever shall say,
Thou fool,
shall be in danger of hell fire.

I appreciate it.
Thanx in advance.

in Love,
atoz

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Dear atoz,

You asked,How is the sin of hatred the spirit of murder?

Two thousand years ago Christ came as 'the Light' that lighted every man that cometh into the world (John 1:9). He was the atonement for the Jews as well as the Gentiles; the propitiation for the sin of the whole world, I John 2:2.

Sin in the flesh died on the cross so that man could have a pure conscience and stand unashamed before God in the Day of Judgment. It takes the forgiveness of sin once and for all to have a pure conscience.

When Adam sinned his conscience was defiled and he lost fellowship with God. He was so ashamed that he ran and hid from God.

Gen 3:8, "And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden."

But this man Christ, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins in the flesh forever, sat down at the right hand of God. Why did he sit down? Because his work of dealing with sin in the flesh was finished. Now we must operate in the faith of that finished work because the next time he comes he will not deal with sin, Heb 9:28, but will deal with those who have not believed.

How is the sin of hatred the spirit of murder?

Sin in the flesh; the body of sin is dead; it was destroyed at Calvary, so when you judge a man after the flesh you can wound his weak conscience and make him ashamed before God. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, Heb 10:31, therefore it is necessary that we build up one another in the most holy faith, a faith that testifies that we have been made blameless before God.

If a man does not know that he was set free of all sin in the flesh, the sins that he is most ashamed of will pass before his eyes and condemn him. His conscience is defiled and will destroy him because he did not believe he was forgiven.

Hosea 4:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..."

Because the truth is vital to eternal life a defiled conscience will kill him without a cause, so we must protect our brother's conscience; we must love him with a pure heart, fervently.

This is why our actions are so important, what might not condemn me, might be the thing that condemns my brother.

'continued'

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

continued from the last reply,

Paul gives the example of eating meat offered to idols. Now we know that an idol is nothing, so eating meat offered to idols means nothing to me, but my brother thinks that eating meat offered to idols is paying homage to the idol. So if he eats the meat, when Christ comes he will be ashamed before him because he ate meat (paid homage) offered to another god.

I Cor 8:10-13, "For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And though thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and would their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat makes my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend."

Phil 3:3, "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

Eph 3:11-12, "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him."

Heb 10:31, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

But: There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love, I John 4:18.

Rev 21:8, "But the fearful and unbelieving...shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone..."

A pure conscience says that you believe in the works of Christ; you believe he took the sin of the world. A pure conscience says that you are holy, righteous, and unblameable before God. A pure conscience speaks of the heart.

Rom 10:10, "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; ;and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

continued.

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

continued from previous reply.

II Cor 5:14, "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh..."

Romans 9:33, "...and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

You asked what means Matthew 5:22.

Matthew 5: 22, "But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Ra;-ca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

These words were spoken by Jesus to the Jews. Jesus was very shortly going to go to the cross and break down the middle wall of partition between the Jews and the Gentiles (Eph 2:14-15) No longer was the law that pertained to the flesh going to separate them from the Gentiles because the flesh was going to die at the cross.

After the cross Paul had this to say:

Gal 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Jesus spoke a parable to the Jews about the Good Samaritan. lThe Jews would not so much as lift a finger to help the poor man who was robbed and thrown in a ditch to die. The poor man was a Gentile and they hated him without a cause.

Whether we are deceived or not, to judge your brother of sin in the flesh is to hate him without a cause.

Jesus spoke to the Jews in parables of this great love that God would show to the world, but instead of embracing the Words of Truth, they hated him without a cause.

God is going to manifest his Kingdom to those who love Him (the words of Truth, Because He is the Word) and those who love their brother. There will be no dissention between the children of God. The true test of faith is that in the face of this very strange salvation we believe God and will hold fast to our profession of faith until he comes. There will never be another fall.

Isaiah 13:12, "I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of O'-phir."

Satan has deceived the world, he has made them believe that they are still dead in sin. We are not dead in sin, but if we believe we are, then we will dondemn ourselves in the end; we did not have faith in his death, nor did we walk in the Power of the Resurrection.

In Christ, Judy

atoz · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject:

Dear Judy,

Thanx so much for your detailed reply and al the work you put into it: u surely know the Bible! I really appreciate your sincerity.

Well suppose, rather than asking you a question, I make a comment and ask you to comment. Ok?

Here goes: All these statements are just saying the same thing in other words:

What dies in me when I hate God or you or any word is the Love in me.
It is Love that dies in me when I hate God or you.
The Death of Love occurs when I hate anyone God loves.
What Hate I have for you kills in Hate the Love in me and so murders Love, and causes the death of Love by murder, which murder is to kill any thing or any one with or by Hate.
My Love is dead and I am spiritually dead, even tho I am physically alive, when I hate anyone: This death of my Love by my Hatred is my first death.
That is why & how when I then do die physically, that physical death is my 2nd death.
And this is HOW the sin of Hate for God or anyone is the spirit of murder: My Hate first kills in Hate my Love: and since to kill in hate is murder, my Hate first murders my Love and causes the Death of my Love. This is why Hate is also called the Law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

Example:
Luke 9:60
Jesus said unto him,
Let the living people whose Love is dead bury their physical dead:
but thou who are alive and whose Love is also alive, go and preach the kingdom of God.

So please tell me what you think about that: that the first thing that dies, the first thing whose Death I cause when I misuse my Hate for who or for what God loves is my Love.

In the Life of Love for life and for death, John 11:25-26,
atoz

MoJo · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject:

Hi nana. This is the crux of the problem I have understanding you. I find the following to be a contradiction;

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Dear Mojo,

I am going to try to answer your question/s with as much clarity as I can, but please bear with me, it will take a little time.

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply.

In Christ, Judy

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Hi Mojo,

Please except my apologies for taking so long.

Dear Mojo,

MoJo · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:

thankyou Judy for taking the time and patience to do this. I'm finally clear, I think, on what you believe. I trust it's been a good exercise for you too, as your previous posts didn't have this same clarity.

I need to think about this for awhile now.

thanx again

Very Happy

nana · Bear Cub Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 625

Hi Mojo,

Your welcome. It was indeed a great exercise for me and I will no doubt refer to it in the future.

Love in Christ, Judy

jeff · Sea Monkey Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 13

Actually, I believe that Paul does - in the early part of Romans 6 - refer to water baptism.

But his point is not water baptism.

His point is dying to self and living to God - and he's using our baptism as the focal point at which that death/burial/resurrection takes place.

I cannot think of any reason Paul would talk so plainly about baptism if he was not talking about baptism.

It's almost as though he's saying to a married man, "Hey, you're no longer living for yourself. You're now living for your wife as well. Remember your wedding day? Your wedding vows? That's when you died to your single life and were born into married life."