 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
luvnlife
Big Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 967
Location: US
|
 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: Charity never fails, prophesies fail, knowledge vanishes? |
 |
|
I'm sorry to bother you all again but here goes....
1 Cor 13 is, to me, a beautiful chapter that sums up how important charity is.
1 Cor. 13:2-10 says:
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
My questions: v8 says prophesies fail, tongues cease, knowledge vanishes but charity never fails.
When referring to prophesies, is this verse referring to biblical or modern-day prophecies and is Paul referring to false prophets here? What does the verse mean when it says 'knowledge will vanish?' Is this because we will no longer have a need to learn as we do now?
Again, much thanks to you all and, as always,
Much Luv   |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge...
yet perfect love casteth out all fear...
So do we only fear what we do not know..and this is the beginning? And once we know the Lord then fear is no longer the beginning and knowledge becomes love?
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Fear of the Lord is the beginning...Love of the Lord is the ending...you don't need knowledge if you have love, because you have already recieved all the knowledge that is needed to get. So there is no more fear of the unknown because we know even as we are known...
And Love never fails...but perfect love casteth out all fear, therefore knowledge will vanish away.
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
first last/last first...
Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.
Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I [am] thy shield, [and] thy exceeding great reward.
Gen 20:11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God [is] not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
no knowledge of God...
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
we fear what we do not know...
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Hbr 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
death is not knowing God...dead men walking..
1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Fear is before we are perfected...Love is after we are made perfect..
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
The unknown God and God who is known by all...
Hsa 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
ignorantly worshipping out of fear...and worshipping out of love...the beginning and the ending...
just something to think about...
lone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luvnlife
Big Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 967
Location: US
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lone said: | Quote: | | ignorantly worshipping out of fear...and worshipping out of love...the beginning and the ending... |
I thiink that is how I began many years ago (the 'fear' factor) because hellfire and damnation were preached so much in the church. But as I 'matured' and started reading on my own and understanding that God loves us and everything Jesus taught us is about love and charity toward Him and one another, I stopped fearing him.
Do you know what is meant by the remark 'but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail?' (See... I still need a lot of help as I told TSS in a previous post...LOL).
Thanks again, friend.
Much Luv  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I started out with prophesying and ended up with knowledge..it was easier..LOL..
To prophesy is to what? tell about the future?
The future is here in my opinion. Everything we needed to know has been recorded, so what can be added that isn't already included in the word of God?
So then prophesies shall fail...? fail..end..not come true??
I just saw this...so cool..
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Christ is the spirit of Prophecy..Paul says he has this. Christ in you is the mystery revealed..Paul says he understands this. knowledge is of God and faith comes from Christ....So Paul has Christ in him he has all things.
But the most important is charity..love...God is Love..and without this then what good is everything else? It's not complete. And we are complete in Christ..
So if prophecies shall fail then it is because nothing more can be revealed that God hasn't already made known.
Psa 98:2 The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.
Psa 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
So if prophecying is telling of the things which are to come, and all things have been made known and have been revealed by His spirit, then what need is there for more prophecy?
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
I believe revelation is the culmination of the entire bible all rolled into one prophecy. It covers from the beginning alpha to the ending omega...but because it moves so quickly as a twinkling of the eye..the visions are like a dream...so fast and obscure. So I believe all prophecies have been told and revealed. There are no new ones coming. But to fulfil the ones which remain...maybe again.
I say again because I believe history repeats itself and God is always creating a new heaven and a new earth at the end of the last one.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..
Genesis.
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth...Revelation...
and it begins again...world without end.
So all prophecies have been fortold. Therefore if anyone adds to the book of prophecy it is a lie. Because God has finished the work. And has shown us the beginning from the end, and the end from the beginning.
Prophecy:
Isa 46:8 ¶ Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring [it] again to mind, O ye transgressors.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken [it], I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed [it], I will also do it.
Isa 46:12 ¶ Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that [are] far from righteousness:
Isa 46:13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.
If there is no new thing under the sun, then what new prophecy can be added to what God has already made known to us?
If none, then prophecies shall cease.
And the prophets were until John...
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The preaching of the Kingdom of God is the end of the world.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The end of that "age"...and then began a new heaven and a new earth in the days of the early church. They were the children of Israel called out and led through the wilderness of the world being an example and a witness of God. I believe we are still in this new age..but at the end of it.
There is great darkness.."ignorance of God" at the end of each "world"/age...and today it's getting dark again. We're seeing the light go dim and the oil running out of the lamps. And when darkness covers the face of the earth and it is void of understanding, then God once again says..Let there be Light...and another is sent to lead man out of that darkness.
There was Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus.....these are lights in a very dark world. But I believe they are all Christ. They are all of that same Light which is sent into the world to redeem man from his ignorance in the one true God. Our redeemer and our Saviour.
ok ramblin on...
You bless me luvnlife...you keep me diggin with my pick..
treasure hunts..I love em...
God Bless
Lone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lone wrote: | | So if prophecies shall fail then it is because nothing more can be revealed that God hasn't already made known. |
the testamony of JESUS is the SPIRIT of prophecy....prophecy will not depart till that which is perfect is come...prophecy is announcing HIS return....
HE is always the GOD who was is and is to come...
prophecy is declaring what has been declared....prophecy is speaking GOD's word...
and all has not been fulfilled...as the bible declares...
none of the gifts will till then...
and to say we have the bible now so we don't need them is not what the bible itself teaches...
nor does it makes sense to read the owner's manuel of a car and say now that i have this...which gives clear instructions of the use of the car's option's...i no longer need them...like saying
i don't need the gifts...because we have the bible that tells us how to use them...and tells us they will not stop till HIS return at which time...prophecy will be abolished...prophecy's will come to an end(which is what it actually means...for then all will be fulfilled)...
tongues will cease(we go back to the pre-babel days of telepathic communication)....
we will be perfect...then...the gifts will no longer be necessary....but are very much alive and active for todays church....
Last edited by theseldomscene on Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luvnlife
Big Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 967
Location: US
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And you, dear Lone, make me think and make me laugh.
I have kept you particularly busy this weekend, haven't I?
I like what you had to say. My first thought when I read 'but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail' had to do with 'false prophets' that are talked about a lot in the new testament.
I grew up JW as I'm sure I've told you a time or two. I remember a couple of times that the church foretold the end of time. Once I know was in 1975. I don't recall the other time. I know other churches from what I have read have also tried 'foretell' when the end of time. The bible states in several places that we will not know the hour, it will come as a thief in the night and yet all these churches are trying to tell us all when the end is coming. These have all turned out to be false prophecies and so that is what I thought about when I first read that verse. LOL.
Take care,
Much Luv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 ...i heard they did it several times...
prophecy is only scripture...or scripture only... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luvnlife
Big Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 967
Location: US
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TSS; You are probably right, but without revealing my age, let's just say I haven't been a member of that church for quite some time
Glad to see you, by the way!
Much Luv  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
luvnlife
Big Lion
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 967
Location: US
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TSS wrote:
| Quote: | to say we have the bible now so we don't need them is not what the bible itself teaches...
nor does it makes sense to read the owner's manuel of a car and say now that i have this...which gives clear instructions of the use of the car's option's...i no longer need them...like saying
i don't need the gifts...because we have the bible that tells us how to use them...and tells us they will not stop till HIS return at which time...prophecy will be abolished...prophecy's will come to an end(which is what it actually means...for then all will be fulfilled)... we will be perfect...then...the gifts will no longer be necessary....but are very much alive and active for todays church.... |
That does make sense to me. I just kind of picked out the word 'fail' when I read prophecies will fail and so I thought perhaps it could be referring to false prophets or false prophecies.
Thx, TSS.
Have a Blessed Night!
Much Luv  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| there is more...if you are interested...maybe later... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi tss,
you wrote:
| Quote: | | and to say we have the bible now so we don't need them is not what the bible itself teaches... |
what we do have is really all we need. And seeing that we already have it what more is there to desire?
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
and who is him?...Christ the spirit of prophecy.
So if we have him and we abide in him, then who is going to teach us any more than what Christ will teach us?
But everything that needs to be known God has made known to us..because we are his friends..
Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
| Quote: | | tongues will cease(we go back to the pre-babel days of telepathic communication).... |
I tend to think we will all have one language and won't have need of tongues and interpreters..
Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
the people is one...
Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
What is it that they are beginning to do? build a city, a tower to reach up to heaven?
Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Psa 127:1 [[A Song of degrees for Solomon.]] Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain.
let us make us a name...they wasn't relying on God to give them a name, they wanted to make one for themselves..hmm..
why did God stop the tower from being built and scatter them...?
Eze 11:1 ¶ Moreover the spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of the LORD'S house, which looketh eastward: and behold at the door of the gate five and twenty men; among whom I saw Jaazaniah the son of Azur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people.
Eze 11:2 Then said he unto me, Son of man, these [are] the men that devise mischief, and give wicked counsel in this city:
Eze 11:3 Which say, [It is] not near; let us build houses: this [city is] the caldron, and we [be] the flesh.
Eze 11:4 Therefore prophesy against them, prophesy, O son of man.
Eze 11:5 ¶ And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, [every one of] them.
| Quote: | | and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. |
Eze 11:6 Ye have multiplied your slain in this city, and ye have filled the streets thereof with the slain.
Eze 11:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Your slain whom ye have laid in the midst of it, they [are] the flesh, and this [city is] the caldron: but I will bring you forth out of the midst of it.
Eze 11:8 Ye have feared the sword; and I will bring a sword upon you, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 11:9 And I will bring you out of the midst thereof, and deliver you into the hands of strangers, and will execute judgments among you.
Eze 11:10 Ye shall fall by the sword; I will judge you in the border of Israel; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
Eze 11:11 This [city] shall not be your caldron, neither shall ye be the flesh in the midst thereof; [but] I will judge you in the border of Israel:
Eze 11:12 And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD: for ye have not walked in my statutes, neither executed my judgments, but have done after the manners of the heathen that [are] round about you.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
The only way a prophecy will fail is if God didn't send the message...
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Jer 14:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
| Quote: | | prophecy's will come to an end(which is what it actually means...for then all will be fulfilled)... |
Jhn 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
Isa 41:17 [When] the poor and needy seek water, and [there is] none, [and] their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
2Ch 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD [is] with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
1Ch 29:11 Thine, O LORD, [is] the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all [that is] in the heaven and in the earth [is thine]; thine [is] the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand...
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
| Quote: | | Mar 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. |
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
| Quote: | Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. |
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
| Quote: | Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. |
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
| Quote: | | Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household? |
Jhn 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Psa 94:1 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
I believe that everything that has been prophesied has been fulfilled...we're just waiting for it to manifest in the flesh. But the spirit of God's word is all written down so when it happens we will know it is the Lord.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Mat 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lone wrote: | | lone wrote: | | and to say we have the bible now so we don't need them is not what the bible itself teaches... |
what we do have is really all we need. And seeing that we already have it what more is there to desire? |
....the HOLY SPIRIT teaches to desire this...
1cor.12:31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
then in chapter 13 HE doesn't teaches how not to need the gifts through love...no where does it suggest such...but rather...how one must operate them in love...to edifying...because when JESUS returns as HE promised(and it wasn't pentecost)...those gifts will stop...but the love they should flow in will continue...but with out the love...with the gifts... read matt 7...
then in 1 cor 14...we are encouraged to desire this...
14:39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40Let all things be done decently and in order.
also...yes...there are many things done in the bible that say all scripture would be fulfilled...and all will be...as JESUS taught... ...and as you quoted, there are many examples of scripture being fulfilled... ...and when JESUS said it is done...HE meant that...
HE meant HIS work was over...HE sat down...and GOD went to work through the HOLY SPIRIT and the gifts HE gives to HIS church... ...
so it is not needing or wanting more than JESUS...but rather wanting all HE promised us...and all the promise contains...both gifts...and more so fruit...of the same SPIRIT...example
prophecy is not about what the person with the gift needs...it is for the edifying of the body...by speaking GOD's word...another gift of GOD is eternal life through JESUS CHRIST our LORD....if we have HIM we have the gift of life...same with the gifts to the church...if we have HIS SPIRIT...those gifts are by and in HIM...they will be there...with fruit(love, joy, ect. ect.)...
of course all these wonderful gifts in 1 cor 13 are in HIM...by HIS SPIRIT...and will be till HIS return...as 1 cor 13 says... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
12:19am  ...good night... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
8:50am GOOD MORNING!!!...
Gifts are good as long as we desire them for the right reasons. Some want them only so they can be famous..
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Isa 1:23 Thy princes [are] rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
Pro 17:23 A wicked [man] taketh a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.
You know in the OT God did a lot of testing while they were walking in the wilderness. He checks to see if people's hearts are right with Him.
So gifts are good if they are applied with the right heart. It's when it is for filthy gain and self-righteous acts that's when you have a problem.
You can have a person that has all gifts and yet if his/her heart is not right with God what does it profit them, they have their reward already..praise of men and not praise of God.
Paul says we aught to covet the best gifts..to me the best gifts are honesty, integrity, and right standing with God.
1cor.12:31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
It's the more excellent way...charity love...that God sees in the heart.
You don't believe then that Jesus is already here?
God is a spirit and those who worship him worship in spirit and in truth. His spirit he has given to us and we have recieved him. How then can he not be among us?
Because we judge with our eyes? Are we looking for a physical manifestation of one man to appear, or is the church and Christ in them that is the spirit of God manifested in the world?
Prophecy is what got me interested in studying the bible in the first place. Trying to figure out all those mysteries and the timing of things. It's still fun to try to figure them out to the day..even though we are told we do not know the day or the hour, we still keep looking anyways..lol...people.. 
When Jesus came the Jews were looking for a "different" saviour. One who would rule the kingdom on earth in the flesh. But Jesus came to rule the hearts and minds through the spirit of love in his kingdom which is in heaven. And as long as we have his spirit and we are walking in him, then we are in the kingdom of God which is at hand. I believe God's kingdom is on this earth but more so in those who walk in it. Like tents, instaed of one big castle. And yet all these tents together make up one kingdom.
When that which is perfect is come...
Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Sometimes I think Paul talks about those things that have come to pass just as much as what is and what will be.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
fear has torment...they feared the Lord..they knew him, but they didn't know him. Because if they had known him, they would have loved him.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Jesus has come to call sinners to repentance.
Jesus is the perfect one which has come.
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Luk 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
I believe that which is perfect has come and now we are being perfected in our following him.
Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
If we prophecy what more can we prophecy than what God has already said. If we add to it then we'll be in trouble and if we take away from it we will be in trouble, so to say anything more or less than what God has already written and made known to us for our perfection will get us into trouble.
| Quote: | | of course all these wonderful gifts in 1 cor 13 are in HIM...by HIS SPIRIT...and will be till HIS return...as 1 cor 13 says... |
I believe Jesus brought these gifts with him to give to the church when he returned on the day of pentecost.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2Cr 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he [is] Christ's, even so [are] we Christ's.
The kingdom of heaven doesn't come with observance..
Luk 17:20 ¶ And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
it is fulfilled..in us through Christ and His spirit within us.
Christ came to fulfill all prophecy and if you look deep enough you will see that all prophecy has been fulfilled. Many are still looking for that earthly kingdom just like the Jews were. But Jesus himself said His kingdom is not of this world...it is spiritual. And it is in us. And we don't know the day or hour when someone repents and turns to God. Each individual is on his/her own time clock with God.
Mat 24:36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
This is baptism washing away all their evil sins..
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I believe it is an individual..guess who's home..kind of deal.
I was baptised but I don't feel any change. It must have been a waste of time. I'm just going to forget it and go on doing what I've been doing.
Now I believe you recieve the Holy Spirit when you are baptised. And the spirit of man is at that moment fighting with God's spirit which he has just recieved.
This would be the evil servant beating up on the good servant. But at some point his/her conscience is going to kick in "with power" and he's going to be so ashamed of being a hypocrite.
I believe evrything in the bible is to be interpreted by and for the individual. But when all individuals begin to believe the same things, then we become a group. And that group then makes up the body of Christ. And the body becomes not just a tabernacle or tent but an entire kingdom.
And if God is building the city...and not man, then it will stand for all time.
Gifts are good if they are not abused or used for one's own gain.
Good Morning...
Have an awesome day..
keep on a smiling....
big hugs
lone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
good morning...i tried to edit my post from last night but ended up quoting it...
the best gifts...are to operate in love...love is the more excellent way...than desire....
desire those gifts...covet them...and in the context he is clearly talking of prophecy....but...even more than desiring them...walk in love...with HIS SPIRIT...and those gifts...will flow...excellently...
yes the gifts are abused...which is why paul said he was writing that potion of scripture...not to do away with the giftss, as he porclaimed they will be here till JESUS comes back....but rather...
to place there use in proper order...must go to work for 10 hrs now...GOD bless...more on this tonight...we have not even touched on what real prophecy entails...plus luv asked a question or rather made a comment that is cool and needs ato be addressed...and i wish to respond to some more pointsin your post...till then...good day and be happy...
like this .... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
