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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: Gospel Message & Mark of the Beast, Combined |
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Gospel Message--- Mark of the Beast
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
QUESTION: How can this ever be accomplished ?
ANSWER: Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
REMEMBER......... Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
ALSO Remember.......that the Mark of the Beast is part of the Gospel message.........
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
******************************************
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Now, did you put that altogether and come up with the right answer ?
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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pato
Kitten
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: Mark of the beast |
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Silver Surfer wrote:
Now, did you put that altogether and come up with the right answer ?
I don't understand how you put them together to come up with this.  |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Mark of the beast |
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| pato wrote: | Silver Surfer wrote:
Now, did you put that altogether and come up with the right answer ? |
The Bible is like a jigsaw puzzle.
Once the pieces are put together correctly, the picture then comes into view.
For example.....not studying the Old Testament fully, results in not understanding the New Testament completely.
The Beast is identified in the OT.
Yet, in the NT, is the warning against the worship, and image to the beast power.
| Quote: |
I don't understand how you put them together to come up with this. :? |
It is the matter of studying the whole Bible, not just parts of it.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Now there is a reason to study the OT as well as the new.
_________________
My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2275
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Silver Surfer, a question for you:
Do Adventists teach that Jesus is to return before or after the 1000 year reign spoken of in this passage which you quoted?
Revelation 20 | Quote: | :4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. |
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | Silver Surfer, a question for you:
Do Adventists teach that Jesus is to return before or after the 1000 year reign spoken of in this passage which you quoted?
Revelation 20 | Quote: | | :4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. |
The people who made it to heaven, taken there when Jesus came to gather the church, will be able to look over the books of record, to see why certain other people are not there....hense it says, 'judgment was given to them'.
| Quote: | | 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. |
The earth will rest during the 7000th year.
The people who were destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming will remain dead, for a 1000 years.
Remember the Bible verse:
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
the UNsaved, were destroyed in the flood......the UNsaved are destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming.
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20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: |
There is ONLY one resurrection of the Righteous.
Which means that the resurrection cannot have occured un til AFTER the Mark of the Beast scenerio.....which verses 4,5 reveal.
| Quote: |
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. |
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_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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pato
Kitten
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: some nonsense |
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| Quote: | The people who made it to heaven, taken there when Jesus came to gather the church, will be able to look over the books of record, to see why certain other people are not there....hense it says, 'judgment was given to them'.
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This makes no sense to me. If they are not there according to what you're saying here, then they are unsaved and are dead. What would be the point of 'the judgement' being given to them to examine books of records. Where do you get this stuff? |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately Silver Surfer the quote you took from Matthew
| Quote: | Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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It says nothing at all about the "mark of the beast", not one word. It is about the spread of the gospel to all nations. In fact, according to my Bible, none of the gospels has anything concerning the "mark of he beast."
Since the "End" is a complex and long complicated series of events it doesn't say anything about the rapture, or the final judgement either, or the war with anti-christ.
Some time before the end of the world all the nations will receive the gospel, is all it says.
_________________
My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| 45degreeN wrote: | Unfortunately Silver Surfer the quote you took from Matthew
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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| Quote: |
It says nothing at all about the "mark of the beast", not one word. It is about the spread of the gospel to all nations. In fact, according to my Bible, none of the gospels has anything concerning the "mark of he beast." |
Perhaps if you had read the original post, you'd have seen where the Everlasting Gospel (Revelation 14:6-12) message includes, the Mark of the Beast.
The Mark of the Beast is the final attempt of satan's to put his principles into action.
| Quote: |
Since the "End" is a complex and long complicated series of events it doesn't say anything about the rapture, or the final judgement either, or the war with anti-christ.
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The Bible plainly states the the Judgment of God must occur before Jesus Christ can come again for HIS people.
| Quote: |
Some time before the end of the world all the nations will receive the gospel, is all it says. |
Yes, and the Mark of the Beast scenerio is the means whereby that will be accomplished.....by forcing every person on earth to choose which way they will go.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2673
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
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The parable of the wheat and the tares is also not specifically before or after anything in particular. In fact you have inserted your own agenda into the interpertation of this passage. The Matthew 13:24-30 parable doesn't even say it is before the"end times." So I just dont accept your thesis about the mark of the beast being in the Gospels anywhere.
I 'm speculating that according to youthe only way to tell the difference between the wheat and the tares is some mark (of the beast) yet there is nothing said about any mark there. In this parable the field workers could appearantly easily tell the difference between the two but there is no mark per se. Agricultural workers in 1st century Judea could tell the difference without any mark.
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My boss is a Jewish carpenter.
Read the
www.Christian-Thinktank.com |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2275
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | The people who made it to heaven, taken there when Jesus came to gather the church, will be able to look over the books of record, to see why certain other people are not there....hense it says, 'judgment was given to them'.
| Quote: | | 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. |
The earth will rest during the 7000th year.
The people who were destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming will remain dead, for a 1000 years.
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Thanks.
So it is your belief that Jesus will come for those who are saved first, then a 1000 years in which those who are saved will reign and those who were destroyed are dead.
And then, what comes after? When is this planet destroyed and a new heaven and earth created? Is that after the 1000 years? Or is the 1000 years in the new heaven/new earth?
According to Adventism, what is the Day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night? Is that the coming of Jesus before the 1000 years, or something after the 1000 years?
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Zathrus wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | The people who made it to heaven, taken there when Jesus came to gather the church, will be able to look over the books of record, to see why certain other people are not there....hense it says, 'judgment was given to them'.
| Quote: | | 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. |
The earth will rest during the 7000th year.
The people who were destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming will remain dead, for a 1000 years.
|
Thanks.
So it is your belief that Jesus will come for those who are saved first, then a 1000 years in which those who are saved will reign and those who were destroyed are dead.
And then, what comes after? When is this planet destroyed and a new heaven and earth created? Is that after the 1000 years? Or is the 1000 years in the new heaven/new earth? |
The Bible shows that the 'unsaved' dead are resurrected, 'after' the 1000 years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
| Quote: |
According to Adventism, what is the Day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night? |
Why did you bring Adventism into this ?
We are interested in what the Bible says, aren't we ?
QUESTION: Is a thief ever expected, at a certain day or hour ?
| Quote: | | Is that the coming of Jesus before the 1000 years, or something after the 1000 years? |
Jesus comes to take HIS people back to heaven with Him, for the 1000 years.
Then after the 1000 years are finished, Jesus comes bringing the New Jerusalem to this earth.
The final execution of the wicked take place, as the Bible says that the earth will be the Lake of Fire, punishing the UNsaved.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men..........
3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
AFTER.....the fire has gone out....then Jesus will recreate the New Earth.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2275
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | We are interested in what the Bible says, aren't we ? |
Yes. Good point.
| Silver Surfer wrote: |
Jesus comes to take HIS people back to heaven with Him, for the 1000 years.
Then after the 1000 years are finished, Jesus comes bringing the New Jerusalem to this earth.
The final execution of the wicked take place, as the Bible says that the earth will be the Lake of Fire, punishing the UNsaved.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men..........
3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
AFTER.....the fire has gone out....then Jesus will recreate the New Earth. |
That's great that you quote 2 Peter 3. Because as Peter wrote in verse 10, he is writing about the day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night. And of course a thief is not expected at a specific day or hour.
So according to the Bible, the day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night is Jesus' coming in which He takes His people to heaven with Him, right?
And that is before the millenial reign, right?
And according to the Bible, or at least popular premillenial interpretation of it which Adventists also hold to, the day in which the earth and heavens are burned up and then replaced with a new heaven and new earth is plainly after the 1000 year reign. So why does Peter say that the day of the Lord that comes as a thief is the day on which the earth and heavens will pass away with a great noise, and be burned up?
_________________
Establishing the law by receiving the righteousness which is by faith, without the deeds of the law!
2 Cor 3 "11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."
Certified Chalcedon Compliant
Officially approved in 451 |
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StElsewhere
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: Re: Gospel Message & Mark of the Beast, Combined |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | Gospel Message--- Mark of the Beast
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
QUESTION: How can this ever be accomplished ?
ANSWER: Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
REMEMBER......... Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
ALSO Remember.......that the Mark of the Beast is part of the Gospel message.........
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
******************************************
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Now, did you put that altogether and come up with the right answer ? |
Are you making a statement or asking a question? |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Gospel Message & Mark of the Beast, Combined |
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| StElsewhere wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: | Gospel Message--- Mark of the Beast
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
QUESTION: How can this ever be accomplished ?
ANSWER: Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
REMEMBER......... Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
ALSO Remember.......that the Mark of the Beast is part of the Gospel message.........
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
******************************************
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Now, did you put that altogether and come up with the right answer ? |
Are you making a statement or asking a question? :? |
A question is being asked.
_________________
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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