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Tiger75
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 417
Location: Leicester, England
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 Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Hi Homer,
I tried several times to reply to you yesterday but my computer kept crashing 
| Quote: | | Tiger, the exact date of the 'final coming of christ' seems to be a heavily debated one. |
As Phin said no-one knows the hour. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is probably a 'False-Teacher' (Matthew 24 talks about that, read that Chapter for a good beginner on Jesus' Coming Again / Return / Final Coming.)
It's a heavily debated one because a lot of 'historical politics' are associated with it rather than an ernest desire to interpret the scriptures. For a lot of people now to change their view is to acknowledge a lot of 'history / tradition' is wrong, they're wrong and for some 'groups' to change who they are - a lot of pride is at stake.
| Quote: | | So, what does the 'final coming of christ' mean? |
It's nearly as simple as you said yourself:
| Quote: | | I know that the belief is that he will come back |
Now your next question:
| Quote: | | but what happens when he does? |
This is the big one! This is were all the controversy lies because it is all open to how the scriptures are to be interpreted and this takes time effort and a life-time of devotion, as Phin said to 'only scratch the surface'.
My views at present are very simplistic:
1) Christ will return at God's appointed time.
2) It will be sudden.
3) It is imminent.
4) It cannot be stopped.
5) The world will be judged in rigtheousness.
6) Those who have been 'Saved' by Jesus will spend eternity with Him in heaven otherwise the destination of the 'wicked' is hell.
In all the teaching the Bible has to offer on the Final Coming of Christ there is more 'Affrimation and Exhortation' i.e. it will happen and to be ready: 'Watch and Pray' than there is 'Information' i.e. how it will happen and when and in what order.
| Quote: | | And Tiger, fierce poodle is certainly a better status than show poodle. |
Grrrrr
| Quote: | | Although I feel like I was just demoted. I went from sea monkey to tadpole. |
Nevermind o little one 
Keep Searching Homer, ps you can learn lots from different people / scholars on religion but not as much as God can if you are prepared to sit down with a Bible and ask him to give you understanding as you read it.
Tiger |
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vwall
Tadpole
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Let me amplify Tigers post a bit.....
#6 suggests that we will live in eternity in Heaven...
This is a misconception.
Actually, "heaven" is goin to be the New Jerusalem.
Where we will all live under the The King, Jesus/Yeshua.
For a 1000 years then the beast will be set free to tempt and sway us once again...
After that time, the great white throne judgement befalls...
As for here and now, it has been established that when people die, they go to Sheol`
Now this has 2 meanings, Hell and rest..
While the wicked will go to the latter half, the righteous will be in the the Fathers rest until the second coming.
Many people beleive it is called Abraham's bosom but this is a very unclear debate.. while I think it is Abrahams bosom.. I cannot 100% prove it...
Also, read Psalm 23..
Many people relate this to funerals but it is quite the contrary in message...
its a little off topic but very good stuff if you really read it. |
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homer
Kitten
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:58 am Post subject: |
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So, does this mean that Jesus, when he comes, will kill everyone on earth, and the believers go to heaven and sinners go to hell?
I know I may be oversimplifying this, but it helps me to understand the concepts when they are broken down to their simplest elements.
Thanks. |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Hello all,
Just wanted to post something for everyone in this discussion. These are seven principles of Bible study I have found invaluable.
1) Do not read into God's Word what you want to find. We must align our life to God's Word, not God's Word to our life.
2) Discover the original intent of the author. Scripture should never be construed to mean something it could never have meant to the writer and its original readers.
3) Not every verse applies directly to us. Read 1 Thessalonians 5:26. Many cultures today do not use a kiss on the lips as a greeting, but in the first century this was common practice in the Gentile churches. Paul was communicating an expression of brotherly love.
4) Always read the verse or passage in its context. This principle is arguably the most important. God's Word was never meant t be read as stand-alone verses.
5) Check for references to past, present, or future tense. Many things are time-specific, as well as culturally specific (#3).
6) Any truth must be established upon the balance of Scripture. A truth in God's Word is never established in isolation to the rest of Scripture. The Bible builds precept upon precept.
7) Ask questions. Who wrote the book? To whom was it written? Where was the writer writing from? In what time period and circumstance did the writer write? Why did the writer write the book? What was his intent?
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| vwall wrote: | | Let me amplify Tigers post a bit.....#6 suggests that we will live in eternity in Heaven...This is a misconception. Actually, "heaven" is goin to be the New Jerusalem. |
The New Jerusalem is figurative language, as is most all of Revelation
| Quote: | Where we will all live under the The King, Jesus/Yeshua.
For a 1000 years then the beast will be set free to tempt and sway us once again...After that time, the great white throne judgement befalls... |
The Book of Revelation mentions a 1,000 year reigh of Christ. Let us understand what this passage (20:1-6) does not say:
- The second coming of Christ is not mentioned
- A bodily resurrection is never mentioned -- he saw "souls" reigning
- A reign on earth is not mentioned.
- A 1,000 year reign of Christ is not mentioned. The passage says that the souls reigned
- David's throne is never mentioned
- Palestine or Jerulasem is never mentioned
- Those who are living are not mentioned - only those that died violent deaths for their faith
- Christ is never said to set foot on the earth
I point these things out only to magnify the need to follow the princilpes of Bible study I posted above.
Much time in the media has been spent on the "end times". Let us remember 2Ti 2:15 "Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth." and 1Th 5:21 "But be examining all [things]; be holding fast [to] the good."
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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zao275
Tadpole
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Posts: 27
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Homer,
Give it a shot! You are correct: people have different interpretations of the Bible. But you can definantly check it out for yourself and see what it's all about. John is a good book to start with, if you ever decide to try it.
I believe that God reveals himself to those who seek Him. And by the way, it is very cool that you come here and ask questions so respectfully and check out things that you don't understand about our beliefs. So thanks!
And pertaining to your question, there are some things that I don't understand, either partially or fully. I am a medical student, and so I've been trained as a scientist, trying to figure everything out. But as Phin pointed out, faith is believing what we can't see. And as much as my mind loves science, I put faith first. Don't get me wrong, I believe the two are reconciled, but if some scientific belief or conundrum confronts what I believe, I don't turn aside and give up my faith! I trust that God knows what He's doing and that all necessary things will be revealed in time. May the Lord continue to reveal His truth to us both.
zao |
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homer
Kitten
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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zao,
| Quote: | And by the way, it is very cool that you come here and ask questions so respectfully and check out things that you don't understand about our beliefs. So thanks!
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thank you. I know that it would be pretty easy to wonder my 'angle' is. Some have noted their skepticism of my motives. And I know that the relationship between atheists and christians is not always a respectful one. But I don't think it needs to be that way.
I appreciate the fact that you (all of you) have responded to my questions with sincerity and well thought out responses. What I find particularly refreshing is the lack of 'flaming' here. That is certainly a rarity on message boards.
So, thank you all, and I look forward to more and more discussions. |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| homer wrote: | | And I know that the relationship between atheists and christians is not always a respectful one. But I don't think it needs to be that way. |
I really appreciate this point of view. Mat 9:12 tells us "But when Jesus heard, He said to them, The ones who are whole do not need a physician, but the ones who are sick."
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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