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homer
Kitten
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 135
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 Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:38 am Post subject: Is not knowing problematic? |
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I'd like to put out another question to all the christians out there. In the debates about the origin of life, the universe, atheism vs. deism, etc.
When I'm asked the questions, particularly about the origin of the universe, I respond that I'm not a scientist, and I know of the theories, but I don't really know for sure. In fact, scientists don't know for sure. And I'm ok with this. I'm ok with life having mysteries yet to be solved, or perhaps never to be solved.
It appears to me that to christians, there are no mysteries. So, I guess my question is: If a question arose to which you had no answer, would you find that unsettling? Or is it not possible for that to happen (i.e. does the bible and god have an answer for everything?)
Thanks. |
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Tiger75
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 417
Location: Leicester, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:54 am Post subject: Not knowing? |
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Hi Homer,
The Bible to me is God's Word. A revelation of Himself to man. Within it can be found the answers to things that God 'knows' are important for us to know.
There are things that we do not know. There are things within the Bible that we do not understand and things that are not to be revealed so any Christian who says there are no 'mysteries' has not read the bible fully.
What the Christian has is Faith, and this comes by 'hearing' and 'hearing' by the word of God. The Chrsitian also has within him the Spirit of God which illuminates the 'Word'.
Some people think this is a bit of a get out in the 'itellectuals' realm but I don't know all the answers yet I know that Christ is the answer to my every need. In Him will I put all my trust.
Tiger |
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homer
Kitten
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:19 am Post subject: |
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tiger,
thanks. your description (fierce poodle) certainly doesn't do your screen name justice. Thank you for the explanation.
Do you have any examples of the mysteries to which you referred? I know it may be hard to cite specifics, but this is something new to me that I think is interesting. Every christian that I have spoken with in the past has treated all issues and questions in a very simplistic manner, with responses like "It's god's will" and such.
So, I would love to know what sort of things still remain a mystery.
thanks. |
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vwall
Tadpole
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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I will cite a specific mystery.
After Cain killed Abel, he left his home and went off to another land and married a woman....
this would seem impossible as the genealogy is Adam & Eve begat Cain and Abel..
now, if Cain killed Abel, and there is no other mention of Man in the bible,... where did this other culture or other peoples come from that Cain would be able to go off and marry????
Here is a Bible mystery.
It does not bother me that there are blank spots in this because I chose to trust Yah (god) and what He says.
Perhaps There were more than Adam and Eve that He created?
Perhaps the time that passed was long enough for several thousand people to have been birthed from Adam and Eve etc.. remember they live hundreds and hundreds of years back then...
these are 2 possibilities.
But as I say, I do not trouble myself with them but trust the Father.
The great mysteries of the Word and the world do not trouble me because I believe when I am passed on into the kingdom of God, these answers will be revealed to me(us)
does this offer any help to you??? |
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Tiger75
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 417
Location: Leicester, England
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| homer wrote: | | Do you have any examples of the mysteries to which you referred? I know it may be hard to cite specifics, but this is something new to me that I think is interesting. |
In the book of Revelation (last book of the bible) it is concerned with the 'Final Coming' of Christ. Many Christians (including of a lot of films) will tell you exactly how and when Christ will return giving you a Chronological Diary from the book of revelation and yet a big chunk of it was not revealed:
| Quote: | | Rev 10:4 Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Seal up the things which the seven thunders uttered, and do not write them." |
Just one example of something not revealed.
Tiger |
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Tiger75
Rabid Pit Bull
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 417
Location: Leicester, England
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:45 am Post subject: Fierce Poodle |
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Hey Homer,
Just two weeks ago I was a 'Show Poodle'! 
Tiger |
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homer
Kitten
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:40 am Post subject: |
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tiger, vwall,
Thanks for those. Those are some pretty significant unknowns.
Tiger, the exact date of the 'final coming of christ' seems to be a heavily debated one. I see many members of these boards discuss that. So, what does the 'final coming of christ' mean? I know that the belief is that he will come back, but what happens when he does?
vwall, I like the ones you brought up. they do raise some pretty interesting questions. are those questions that are regularly discussed like the 'final coming of christ', or are they deemed pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, so are therefore not really worth debating?
So, Adam and Eve lived for hundreds of years?!! I had no idea.
And Tiger, fierce poodle is certainly a better status than show poodle. Although I feel like I was just demoted. I went from sea monkey to tadpole. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5046
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 10:30 am Post subject: Fierce Poodle |
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Tiger, that changes with your number of posts!
12 more posts & you'll be a LABRADOR hehe! 
you will then have 300 posts
Cheers, 
Nobby |
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homer
Kitten
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Nobby,
How many more do I need to longer be a tadpole? |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5046
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Homer, Total 30, 11 more and you'll be a "Little Guppy"
Can't win for loosing!
See ya,
Nobby |
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vwall
Tadpole
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| On this matter, can I stay a Sea Monkey even if I surpass the levels of hierarchy??? |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5046
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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vwall, I'm really not sure, They've got me locked in as moderater.
I'll try to find out. 
Nobby |
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vwall
Tadpole
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, dont worry about it.
If I remember to , I will ask Conrad myself..
Its no biggie..
Im a mod on 2 of his other forums...
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Phinehas
Show Poodle
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 262
Location: St. Cloud
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Is not knowing problematic? |
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Alright Homer, what gives??? I mean, you just pop on to this board and start asking all these intelligent questions!
| homer wrote: | It appears to me that to christians, there are no mysteries. So, I guess my question is: If a question arose to which you had no answer, would you find that unsettling? Or is it not possible for that to happen (i.e. does the bible and god have an answer for everything?)
Thanks. |
The simple one-word answer for why it appears to you that there are no mysteries to Christians is faith. The Bible's definition of faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb. 1:11). It is not that there are no mysteries, but that we know Him who has the answers to all mysteries and we have found Him to be trustworthy, faithful, and true.
According to God, the world was created in six days. I don't have a problem with that. I believe creation was completed in six 24-hour periods. I have examined evidence and scientific arguments for both evolution and creation. I have done my level best to be objective and fair. I have found the arguments for evolution to be substantially lacking. I have not seen any good evidence as to why the six days are figurative and not literal. So, if I'm wrong, what happens when I die? Nothing that wouldn't otherwise happen. Salvation is not based on a correct understanding of creation or of end times. I could even form an opinion on UFOs, but whether I believe they exist or not has no bearing on my eternal destination.
| homer wrote: | | ...the exact date of the 'final coming of christ' seems to be a heavily debated one. |
By the way, anyone who tells you s/he knows when Jesus is coming back is wrong by default (e.g., JWs). "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[1] but only the Father" (Mt. 24:36). If we could know when Jesus would return, we could all live as hedonists and have death bed or last minute conversions (assuming we won't get hit by a bus in the mean time).
vwall mentioned a mystery regarding Cain and Abel. It has been said many times that one can study the Bible for a lifetime and still have only scratched the surface. In my own studies, I have found this to be more than likely. Cain and Abel were brothers. Cain and Abel both offered sacrifices to God. God found Abel's sacrifice to be acceptable but Cain's unacceptable (for reasons I'll leave for another discussion). Cain was jealous and murdered Abel. As a result, God did not kill Cain, but marked him and set him to wandering in the wilderness. He did say that anyone who killed Cain would be avenged for Cain sevenfold. The story of Cain and Abel is a picture and a foreshadowing of the relationship between the Jews and Jesus.
The Jews and Jesus were brothers. Both offered sacrifices to (i.e., served) God, but Jesus' service was found acceptable and the Jews' service unacceptable. The Jews were jealous of Jesus and murdered Him. As a result, God did not kill the Jews, but marked them (they are widely known to this day as God's chosen people) and set them to wandering the wilderness (other nations from South America to Europe to the Middle East to China). Take a look down through history at what has happened to the nations that came against the Jews/Israelites or that turned their backs on them. Egyptians, Philistines, Babylonians, Arameans, Assyrians, Greeks, the Roman Empire, the Third Reich, the British Empire, and Ethiopia to date that I'm aware of.
In my book, this counts as a mystery explained, but it was a mystery I wasn't even aware of until the explanation was shown to me. The Bible is packed with such mysteries waiting to delight discoverers. I touched on a few others like this in the Leviticus forum in a topic titled "Biblical Holidays" that, by the way, has not received a single reply.
Phin |
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homer
Kitten
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Phin,
Thanks for the compliment, and for taking the time to make your own intelligent reply. What gives? Well, I like learning from people, moreso than from books. Especially when it comes to religion, because people's interpretations of their religions and their religions' scriptures can vary greatly from one person to the next. So, while I could read the bible, I think the odds are that I wouldn't understand to the degree that you and other students of the bible do.
What I find espcially fascinating about religion is that this is what people devote their lives to. It is something so compelling that people will live and die for their religions. That being the case, I think it's certainly worthy of a little extra looking into on my part.
So, I appreciate your responses tremendously. And I do ask these questions out of a genuine curiosity. I'm not here to antagonize, or try and prove that I'm right and your wrong or vice versa (there are others here doing that already ). I'm just your average atheist trying to learn a little more about that which I don't know.
Thanks. |
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