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MoJo
Moderator
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 3148
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! a consensus of three.  Now we're geting somewhere. 
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2417
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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It must be remembered that satan will attack the Lord's Day, the 7th day sabbath, in any shape or form......
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon (satan) was wroth (angry) with the woman (true church), and went to make WAR with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This 'war', may take on any number of methods of attack.
It may be violent....or, extremely subtle.
Whatever it takes, to get people to ignore or flat out reject, what God has said to do. |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Greetings Mojo,
Mojo’s quote:
| Quote: | | This is how I see it. Although Christ died at a specific point in time, that sacrifice is perpetual. |
The Bible says exactly the opposite. Christ is not continually forgiving or perpetually forgiving man of sins, that was what the blood of bulls and goats did, but we have a better sacrifice that was one time once and for all. The Word says:
Hebrews 9:25-26, “Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26) For then must he often (continually,or perpetually) have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to PUT AWAY sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
Hebrews 9:28, “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
Mojo’s quote:
| Quote: | | What that means is that all future generations can participate in his sacrifice by crucifying themselves to sin. |
No where in the scriptures does it say that; this is false doctrine. We do not crucify ourselves to sin.
The Bible says:
Galatians 2:20, “I am crucified with Christ…”
Romans 6:4-5, “Therefore we ARE buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.”
Romans 6:7, “For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
We don’t crucify ourselves to sin! How else would you do that accept that you would be under the law?
Mojo’s quote:
| Quote: | | Sin has dominion over us. |
If you are under the law sin has dominion over you, but we are not under the law. The scripture says:
Romans 6:9, “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Mojo’s quote:
| Quote: | | When Christ died, there was not an automatic blanket thrown over all sin. |
That is not scriptural, the Bible says:
Psalms 32:1, “Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.”
Psalms 85:2, “Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people; thou hast covered ALL their sins.
And for a NT application:
Romans 4:7, “Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.”
And then of course there is the New Covenant:
Hebrews: 10:17, “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus.”
Isaiah 61:10, “…He hath covered me with the robe of righteousness…”
Mojo’s quote:
| Quote: | | That he died for the remission of sins past is speaking to **our past**- the individual’s past. |
Romans 3:25 is not saying that Christ died for ‘past sins’, it says:
Romans 3:25, “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness; that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”
No place in the scriptures does it remotely suggest that Christ took ones past sins.
John 1:29, “The next day John (John the Baptist) seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the SIN OF THE WORLD.”
John never said: Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away an individuals past sins.
Mojo’s quote:
| Quote: | | Once we repent and confess, our past sins are remitted, so that his sacrifice equally applies and is perpetual and works the same way to all generations. |
Can you quote that to me from the Bible? All scriptures that refer to salvation say:
Romans 10:9-10, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. FOR WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation;”
Mojo’s quote:
| Quote: | | All individuals, all generations are under subjection to sin until their personal rebirth. |
Paul never mentions once in his Epistles a personal rebirth. In fact the word ‘personal’ is not in the Bible anywhere. Why? Well that is another topic!
In Christ, Judy |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2417
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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The title: "God hates a physical sabbath"
By that, we can conclude that God DOES NOT know what He is doing .....since He did create a sabbath in the first place !
It also includes that God IS NOT all-Knowing.
It includes God IS NOT all-wise.
Why then did God place a SPECIAL BLESSING upon the one day above the other days of the week ?
Why did God make that one day HOLY......above the other days of the week ?
Why did God make the sabbath a 'SIGN' ...between Himself and the believer ?
IF the sabbath is not 'physical'.....then, the other days of the week does not exist, either !
These are just things to think about, OK ? |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings Silver,
If you are confused about the verse that was quoted in this topic then you need to take it up with God, no one made it up, it is from the All Mighty Himself!
In Christ, Judy |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2417
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| nana wrote: | Greetings Silver,
If you are confused about the verse that was quoted in this topic then you need to take it up with God, no one made it up, it is from the All Mighty Himself!
In Christ, Judy |
Confused ?
Not hardly.....as I know God did not create the 7th day sabbath, to be ignored.
It will determine who is loyal to God or not.
THe Bible plainly states that ONLY those who keep God's commandments are getting into heaven......
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2032
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | The title: "God hates a physical sabbath"
By that, we can conclude that God DOES NOT know what He is doing .....since He did create a sabbath in the first place !
It also includes that God IS NOT all-Knowing.
It includes God IS NOT all-wise. |
Brother Surfer, I would arrive at different conclusions. In fact my conclusions would be the exact opposites. That the Sabbath is not an earthly ceremonial observance shows me that God is all knowing and all wise. It shows me that His kingdom is not earthly but heavenly. It is not natural but spiritual. It shows me that God was willing to show us what an earthly kingdom would be like - old covenant Israel. It was a miserable failure.
It shows me that all the earthly ordinances, laws and ceremonies were a shadow of the true kingdom which is spiritual in nature.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | Why then did God place a SPECIAL BLESSING upon the one day above the other days of the week ?
Why did God make that one day HOLY......above the other days of the week ? |
Here is an interesting question: When God rested on the 7th day after creating the heavens and earth, do you suppose that sabbath rest was natural or spiritual? Would God, who is a Spirit, take a natural day of rest? It never says that He returned to work on the 1st day of the next week. I think this indicates He is enjoying eternal sabbath rest - the same rest He invites us to partake in.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Why did God make the sabbath a 'SIGN' ...between Himself and the believer ? |
The passage you are referring to here was addressed to old testament Israel. I don't think there is grounds to extrapolate it to apply to God's spiritual Israel, who enjoys a spiritual sabbath rest.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | IF the sabbath is not 'physical'.....then, the other days of the week does not exist, either ! |
This is not logical. Saying that no earthly day of the week needs to be set aside as an earthly sabbath, or saying that the true sabbath is spiritual, is not saying that there are no earthly days of the week.
| Silver Surfer wrote: | | These are just things to think about, OK ? |
Your perspectives have indeed stimulated thoughts. Often, someone else looking at something from a perspective from which I would never think to look at it brings new and exciting insights. Thanks, brother. |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2417
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: Re: God hates a physical Sabbath |
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That statement comes from someone who has NOT studied their Bible.
Because it is unreasonable for God to create a physical sabbath, and then tell people to keep it physically, and to say God hates a physical sabbath ? |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Nana: God hates a physical Sabbath.
Atoz: God loves the physical sabbath but hates the sin of Hate that we put in sabathkeeping by hating sundaykeepers or anyotherday keepers.
God loves the physical Sunday but hates the sin of Hate we put in sunday keeping by hating sabbathkeepers or hating anyotherday keepers.
in Love for both sab and sun and all other days,
atoz |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2417
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: | Nana: God hates a physical Sabbath.
Atoz: God loves the physical sabbath but hates the sin of Hate that we put in sabathkeeping by hating sundaykeepers or anyotherday keepers.
God loves the physical Sunday but hates the sin of Hate we put in sunday keeping by hating sabbathkeepers or hating anyotherday keepers.
in Love for both sab and sun and all other days,
atoz |
She is just not in tune with the will, or love for God, that's all. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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ok here's a thought...
God gives us Everything...everyday of every week of every year.
All God ever asked for was a tenth of all that he had given.
So God gave man 6 days and we were to give him back one...
expanding the mind...
God gave man 6000 years and we are to give him 1000 years in return...
Because a day is as a thousand years to the Lord.
Now Adam lived how long?
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
70 years short of 1000...
70 is ten times 7 and 7 is one tenth of 70.
So Adam rested/slept/died...at the beginning of the seventh day. He gave God his back his 10 percent.
And God gave him rest in it.
Now we have the tithe that we offer and we also have freewill offerings...
And Jesus says it is more blessed to give than to recieve.
So should we just give God back his one tenth or one day that he gave us to rest in? Or should we make everyday a freewill offering, seeing it is more blessed to give than to recieve?
just tossin some things around:
Num 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer [as] an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
there's that tithe...
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
I'm thinking ...the law and prophets were until John...
until John meaning that that 1000 years of the Levites judging and reigning had ended.
And the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years was ended...
and the "remainder" of the dead? or the "sleep" of the dead?
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is after the day 1000 years of rest.
And it is a sign to Israel/Abraham so that they could have hope that when all faith and love had died..that at the end it would again be revived.
When receiving was more blessed than giving....then the tide would turn.
The "rest" OF the dead ran out of tithes..so they have to go back to work..LOL..and their works do follow them.
Kind of like the social security system we have today...
People have to work longer and harder to give security to those who can not work anymore...
So we have to rely on our kids to go out and work to fund SS for us, so when we can't work the money will be there for our "rest"...
So because we are born again..we get to do the works all over again...except this time wiser, smarter, showing our kids how to work more efficiently and prosperous, so there will be more money in the bank so everyone will be able to rest..
Only the bank that's in heaven doesn't rely on monetary gain...it relies on the fruit we bring so that we can share it with those who have and have not.
Like the story of Joseph storing up seven (there's that 7, that 10th) years of corn for the seven years of famine...(no sabbath)...(no rest)...that was coming.
The days of darkness....hmmm..
Jesus says the day is short because of the night. And the thief comes in the night to steal what those in the day have stored up...
So when we give a tenth or one day...and the thief comes and steals that tenth or one day..then we have nothing...no rest...
But we see in some cases..that tenth being supplied by both Jews..(sabbath day)...and Gentiles...(sunday)...
both storing up the treasure house for all to enjoy that "rest" OF the dead.
Some give freewill offerings everyday..some give two or three days...but we all give at least a tenth if not more.
Those who don't have it to give, others will supply their needs. Some don't know their supposed to give, and we will supply their needs...
always remembering that it is more blessed to give than to receive...
And those who receive are more blessed by those who give...
As long as someone is blessed by giving something and someone is blessed by receiving something, how can God hate it...especially when God loves a cheerful giver...
hugs
Lone |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2417
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: Re: God hates a physical Sabbath |
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The title: 'God hates a physical sabbath', is a bit much.
AND, it leaves a wrong impression upon the minds of the Christian world, who are supposed to uphold ALL God's Laws.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
QUESTION: Who are the 'we' ?
I think what is often misunderstood is the fact that the spiritual realm, CANNOT be separated from the physical realm.
Too many people in the Christian world are taking the position that the sabbath, only refers to the spiritual aspects of Christianity.
BUT, God says: Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
It must be remembered that God blessed, and made holy, only one, certain, physical day.
In other words, God made the distinction of the 7th day from, all the other days.
Physical work, was to be done on the other 6 days, and physical rest, was to be observed on the 7th day......
20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work,
That is exactly what God Himself did.
Physically, creating on the 6 days...and physically rested, from creating on the 7th day.
And YES....I admit that there is spiritual aspects to the sabbath rest, but that does not remove God's command of the physical aspects, of the sabbath rest, on a physical 7th day.
Look again at God's 4th commandment....and EVERYTHING it says in detail.....
20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Did you catch that ?
NO ?
Verse 10...it says...what ?
son....daughter....cattle...stranger....not to work.
QUESTION: How can there be only 'spiritual' rest to cattle ?
How do you make cattle, 'spiritually' rest ?
Another question...how can you make a stranger.....or, son...or, daughter ....rest 'spiritually', if they don't want to ? |
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