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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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 Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| lnl wrote: | | It's just not worth the effort. |
the way of the slothful man is as an hedge of thorn's: but the way of the righteous is made plain. prov15:19...
the slothful man sayeth, there is a lion in the way, a lion in the streets. prov.26:13...
rm12:9Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
10Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
11Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
12Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
13Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
14Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
15Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
16Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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TSS wrote:
| Quote: | | 10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; |
and...
| Quote: | | 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. |
and...
| Quote: | | 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. |
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, TSS. I honestly think you are just trying to break my spirit. I don't know how the way you have dealt with me can be considered 'kindly affectioned' or showing 'brotherly love.' And I certainly hope that you are not implying that I am an evil that needs to be overcome.
I think you are a passionate person like Paul but I also think lately your passion has been misdirected.
I do care but I think we have to, at this point, just 'agree to disagree.'
Much Luv |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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 ...THY word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path... ps199:105.. ...
Last edited by theseldomscene on Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| lnl wrote: | | I honestly think you are just trying to break my spirit |
ps34:18 the LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and save such as be of a contrite spirit.
57:17 the sacrifices of GOD are a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, o GOD, THOU wilt not despise.
Isaiah 57:15-21 for thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
16For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
17For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.
18I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
19I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.
20But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
ps69(my favorite psalm...)...1Save me, O God; for the waters are come in unto my soul.
2I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the floods overflow me.
3I am weary of my crying: my throat is dried: mine eyes fail while I wait for my God.
4They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away.
5O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.
6Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord GOD of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel.
7Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.
8I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
9For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.
10When I wept, and chastened my soul with fasting, that was to my reproach.
11I made sackcloth also my garment; and I became a proverb to them.
12They that sit in the gate speak against me; and I was the song of the drunkards.
13But as for me, my prayer is unto thee, O LORD, in an acceptable time: O God, in the multitude of thy mercy hear me, in the truth of thy salvation.
14Deliver me out of the mire, and let me not sink: let me be delivered from them that hate me, and out of the deep waters.
15Let not the waterflood overflow me, neither let the deep swallow me up, and let not the pit shut her mouth upon me.
16Hear me, O LORD; for thy lovingkindness is good: turn unto me according to the multitude of thy tender mercies.
17And hide not thy face from thy servant; for I am in trouble: hear me speedily.
18Draw nigh unto my soul, and redeem it: deliver me because of mine enemies.
19Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee.
20Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.
21They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
22Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.
23Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.
24Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.
25Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.
26For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
27Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
28Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
29But I am poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high.
30I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving.
31This also shall please the LORD better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hoofs.
32The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.
33For the LORD heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners.
34Let the heaven and earth praise him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein.
35For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in possession.
36The seed also of his servants shall inherit it: and they that love his name shall dwell therein.
GOD bless you... |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: US
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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TSS, I am truly touched. The Psalms are beautiful, aren't they?
God bless you too, my friend.
Luv |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: Re: New Testament straight through (then the Old Testament) |
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| luvnlife wrote: | Hello;
I am reading the New Testament. I read Revelations first then I read Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and most of Acts.
Are there any others out there who may want to read3 or 4 chapters a week and have an open discussion about what we each gleaned from the scriptures?
Thanks in advance.
Luvnlife |
QUESTION: How can the New Testament be understood, without the foundation of the Old Testament, not laid first ?
This is one of the reasons, God placed a warning, on the writings of Paul. |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Silver said: | Quote: | | QUESTION: How can the New Testament be understood, without the foundation of the Old Testament, not laid first ? |
This is one of the reasons, God placed a warning, on the writings of Paul.
What are you talking about? What warning and where is this warning? I would like to know. I'm not trying to be critical. I really do want to know.
As far as the New Testament, I have read quite a bit of it in the past and, as a matter of fact, am reading a part of it again now in conjunction with what I have read in Galations and Ephesians.
Once I finish with the New Testament, my intent is to read the OT from start to finish. It may seem backwards to you but that's how I am approaching it.
I have my reasons for deciding to do it this way.
Thanks, Silver.
Much Luv:) |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| luvnlife wrote: | Silver said: | Quote: | | QUESTION: How can the New Testament be understood, without the foundation of the Old Testament, not laid first ? |
This is one of the reasons, God placed a warning, on the writings of Paul.
What are you talking about? What warning and where is this warning? I would like to know. I'm not trying to be critical. I really do want to know. |
And you shall know, my friend.
2 Peter 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
My conclusion to this is a warning to study the OT, for us in today's time..
As the people of Paul's time only had the OT, they understood what he was saying.
Without OT knowledge, Paul's writings can be easily misunderstood, and interpreted incorrectly.
| Quote: |
As far as the New Testament, I have read quite a bit of it in the past and, as a matter of fact, am reading a part of it again now in conjunction with what I have read in Galations and Ephesians. |
I believe God warnings about Paul's writings apply to the book of Galations, especially in a great way, as this book can be easily misunderstood, if taken out of context with what other Bible writers have said.
Galations deals with both Laws of God, the 10 commandments, as well as the Law of Moses.
It is VERY IMPORTANT....to know which law Paul is refering to, in any given Bible verse ! |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: US
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Silver;
I appreciate your feedback but I think for you to understand where I am coming from and what I find confusing about the Levitical law versus what Jesus taught, you would need to read the thread I started this morning regarding this very subject: http://bible-discussion.com/message-board-forum/viewtopic.php?p=88765#88765.
I would welcome a follow-up response once you have read that.
Thanks again,
Much Luv  |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Interesting, that someone would start at the end of the story, before beginning at the start of the story.
Without the foundation of the Old Testament, the New Testament will be misunderstood ! |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: US
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I don't recall saying that I had never read the OT. I have not sat down and read from Genesis straight through Malachi but I have read a great deal of the OT nonetheless. I have read many chapters sequentially in many books of the OT.
Let's say I had read it straight through... that does not in and of itself guarantee a comprehension or understanding of what has been read.
I would bet that there are many people who just read verses here & there and have never read the OT or the NT cover-to-cover. What would you say about their understanding of the scriptures?
I am taking some of my reading a little slowly right now. I am involved in a bible study and the group is examining Hebrews 7. Currently, we are reading about Melchizedek and examining whether Melchizedek was a metaphorical reference to God or Jesus or perhaps something else. My personal feeling is that he was not a flesh-and-blood man but that's another story....
There may be people on this very board who have read the OT straight through but haven't gotten to the NT yet. There is a lot of information in the NT that is extremely pertinent. To know God, it's important to understand his son and what he taught and what he stood for and what they both ultimately desire. It's important to know Gods plan for us and how we as Gods children contribute to the success of Gods plan.
As for the OT, I have read a great deal of it. As for reading the OT cover-to-cover, I will get there in due time.
Thanks for your concern,
Love, Luv  |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| luvnlife wrote: | I don't recall saying that I had never read the OT. I have not sat down and read from Genesis straight through Malachi but I have read a great deal of the OT nonetheless. I have read many chapters sequentially in many books of the OT.
Let's say I had read it straight through... that does not in and of itself guarantee a comprehension or understanding of what has been read.
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AGREEDED !
I have heard from many people that they have read the whole Bible.
YET, they failed to see the plan of Salvation in the OT.
They have failed to understand that salvation, and the commandments of God go hand in hand.
They failed to see that Adam & Eve had all the 10 commandments given them, in the Garden of Eden.
| Quote: |
I would bet that there are many people who just read verses here & there and have never read the OT or the NT cover-to-cover. What would you say about their understanding of the scriptures? |
A mere superficial reading of the Bible is of little value, unless put into practice.
Be it NT or OT.
The OT tells how Christ dealt with people, and the lessons there are for our benefit to understand how God deals with mankind.
Jesus Christ has never changed the way He deals with people.
Example:
Those sabbath-breakers in the OT, are but examples of how He will treat Sabbath-breakers in the NT.
| Quote: |
I am taking some of my reading a little slowly right now. |
That is a wise choice, as you benefit far more by taking things slowly.
| Quote: |
I am involved in a bible study and the group is examining Hebrews 7. Currently, we are reading about Melchizedek and examining whether Melchizedek was a metaphorical reference to God or Jesus or perhaps something else. |
It is always a good idea, to go back and refer to the Scriptures of Melchizedek (in the OT), as you read Hebrews 7.
| Quote: |
My personal feeling is that he was not a flesh-and-blood man but that's another story.... |
Be very CAREFUL !
One of the signs of being of the anti-Christ spirit is claiming that God did not come in human flesh......
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
| Quote: |
There may be people on this very board who have read the OT straight through but haven't gotten to the NT yet. There is a lot of information in the NT that is extremely pertinent. |
YES, it is, BUT only after the foundation of the OT has been laid first.
Remember, that the Bible does not start out with NT books, But with Genesis.
| Quote: | To know God, it's important to understand his son and what he taught and what he stood for and what they both ultimately desire. It's important to know Gods plan for us and how we as Gods children contribute to the success of Gods plan.
As for the OT, I have read a great deal of it. As for reading the OT cover-to-cover, I will get there in due time.
Thanks for your concern,
Love, Luv :) |
Just remember, God's warning about Paul's writings, centered around people being unlearned.....unlearned as lacking OT knowledge. |
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pato
Kitten
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: OT - NT |
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| Quote: | I have heard from many people that they have read the whole Bible.
YET, they failed to see the plan of Salvation in the OT. |
In your opinion SS briefly tell us how this plan is shown in the OT. |
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luvnlife
Lion King
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Silver surfer said:
| Quote: | | The OT tells how Christ dealt with people, and the lessons there are for our benefit to understand how God deals with mankind. |
~ Here’s the catch, SS; I don’t believe in the traditional “Trinity” as it was taught to me. I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe in the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost. I believe they are all intertwined, that they are related but I do not believe they are all one entity.
SS stated: | Quote: | | It is always a good idea, to go back and refer to the Scriptures of Melchizedek (in the OT), as you read Hebrews 7. |
~ We are exploring the references made to Melchizedek in both the OT and the NT. We are turning a few verses of Hebrew 7 upside down and inside out.
Silver said: | Quote: | Be very CAREFUL !
One of the signs of being of the anti-Christ spirit is claiming that God did not come in human flesh......
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. |
~ I believe Jesus did come in the flesh and wholeheartedly understand that he is the son of God. I do not, however, believe at this juncture that Melchizedek and Jesus are one and the same. Melchizedek has no beginning and no end and Melchizedek had no mother, no father. Jesus has a father - God.
| Quote: | I said:
| Quote: | | There may be people on this very board who have read the OT straight through but haven't gotten to the NT yet. There is a lot of information in the NT that is extremely pertinent. |
SS replied:
| Quote: | YES, it is, BUT only after the foundation of the OT has been laid first.
Remember, that the Bible does not start out with NT books, But with Genesis. |
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~ That’s your opinion and you are welcome to it. I am doing what I am guided to do at this time.
Much Love, Luv |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2656
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: OT - NT |
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| pato wrote: | | Quote: | I have heard from many people that they have read the whole Bible.
YET, they failed to see the plan of Salvation in the OT. |
In your opinion SS briefly tell us how this plan is shown in the OT. |
The Sanctuary Moses built, was a copy of the GREAT Original that is in heaven, right now.
The Sanctuary service was made by Moses (at God's command) as to illustrate how Salvation worked.
THE PLAN OF SALVATION
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Psalms 77:13 Thy way, O God, [is] in the sanctuary: who [is so] great a God as [our] God?
In other words, the whole plan of HOW man is saved, is found in the Sanctuary services.
Paul understood this, as written in the Book of Hebrews.
SANCTUARY SERVICES......Heavenly copied on earth by Moses
Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
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Hebrews 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
9:18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood.
9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
9:20 Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
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Exodus 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
25:9 According to all that I show thee, [after] the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make [it].
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Rev. 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
<THE ARK OF THE TESTAMENT CONTAINED THE 10 COMMANDMENTS, ON EARTH....so then sanctuary on earth, was a 'copy' of the original>
***************************************
Rev. 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
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Rev. 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
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Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
(This is refering to the Sanctuary in heaven) |
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