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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2723
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
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There is no record of anyone ever inventing the 7 day week.
[/quote]
Apparently someone has NOT READ the Bible, and so.....
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Chapter 2
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Since only 7 days are mentioned......I think that there is ONLY 7 days to the week. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| atoz wrote: | I happen to agree in Love with SS on that since the 24x7 day week has been a universal constant on which astronomers base their calculations, and every body knows what is the first day of 8th day of the 7-day week.smile
There is no record of anyone ever inventing the 7 day week.
It just is.
Or, is there?
Enlighten me, please. |
My friend, the 24x7 day week is absolutely NOT a universal constant.
Calendars were established by men, not God, and many such devices have been invented and used throughout history. Different civilizations had different ways of measuring time. In the time of Moses the Isrealites used a significantly different measuring device than what the world in general uses today. Ultimately though, the fact remains that 'Saturday' is found NO WHERE in scripture. |
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nana
Bear Cub
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings,
Do ye not yet know that the sabbath is spiritual. It is eternity. It is all consuming. To enter a building made with hands and get down on your physical knees one day a week is not enough. God doesn't want a day, he doesn't want a year, He wants our hearts forever, we are his and He is mine.
Acts 17:28, "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspirng."
In Christ, Judy |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | There is no record of anyone ever inventing the 7 day week.
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Apparently someone has NOT READ the Bible, and so.....
[/b][/quote]
Hi SS,
Well, I hope you had a good double-rest on the Sabbath by resting in the Sabbath of Love for non-readers of the Bible and for good sights and for bad appearances, especially since you do walk by faith which works by Love, and not by appearances......apparently: 2 Cor 5:7!smile
Or am I again not reading, this time, you right?smile
Let me kindly explain in Love:
Since I agreed with you in you keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day of the week, and to me it goes without you saying so explicitly that you implicitly and obviously keep the Sabbath because you believe, no, you KNOW that God made the 7 day week of which the 7th day sabbath is a part, I misfigured that it wd be obvious to anyone or to someone or to especially you or to any reader that 'anyone' meant any human being as in 'There is no record of any human being ever inventing the 7 day week.'!smile
Sigh.
I perceive, I may be wrong, I hope that I am wrong, I'll be sad if I am right, that there is a certain spirit in you that makes you unwise and over-argue with and protest too much against even your prospective friends like me, smile, and so makes you re-alienate those of your enemies you wish to convince!
Opportunity for you to prove me wrong and prove God right in that you are keeping and do usually keep His Sabbath in Love of all of God's other creations, which, to be explicit, is everything in existence:
Do you love snakes and satan as God commands in Matthew 5:43-48?
If not, and you do hate snakes and satan,
how can you be as wise as serpents as per Matthew 10:16,
and love JC whose symbol is also a snake as per Numbers 21:6-9 and John 3:14,
and love one of the 4 things so wonderful to God who also invented the snake: the way of a serpent on a rock?
I am sure that you, being an obviously avid Bible-reader, know where that verse is!smile
Hint: In Proverbs.
As JC says to all of us: Just be careful HOW you hear WHAT you hear and read...anywhere! I am sure you where that verse is too!smile
In Godly Love for all lionish Lambs and lambish Lions,
atoz |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: |
Calendars were established by men, not God, and many such devices have been invented and used throughout history. Different civilizations had different ways of measuring time. In the time of Moses the Isrealites used a significantly different measuring device than what the world in general uses today. Ultimately though, the fact remains that 'Saturday' is found NO WHERE in scripture. |
Thank you, sir.
Now what do you think about this?
Is this a reasonable premise for some sabbath-keepers to use for keeping their Sabbath on saturday as the 7th day and for other sabbath-keepers to keep their sabbath on the 1st day of the week:
JC kept the sabbath at the right time and he kept it on the 7th day whichever named day that was. Luke 4:16.
And since, since his time, the week has never changed,
therefore, ipso facto, the sabbath he kept is still the 7th day, which is called saturday, and is why the Catholics know which day is the first day of the week which they call sunday, and is why the muslims know which day of the week is the 5th day, which they call the King of Days and we call Friday.
Fyi:
'In the Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 3, p. 740, article "Chronology," we read: "It is to be noted that in the Christian period, the order of days in the week has never been interrupted. Thus, when Gregory XIII reformed the calendar in 1582, Thursday, 4 October was followed by Friday, 15 October. So in England, in 1752, Wednesday, 2 September, was followed by Thursday, 14 September."
The Proof of Reason
And another line of proof. Why should time be lost? How COULD it be lost? Stop, think! One person might, perhaps, wake up some Saturday morning and think it was Friday, and thus wait until Sunday to keep his Sabbath. But for time to be lost, not only ONE MAN, but every other person in his town or city--every person in every province, state, or county of the whole world-- every person in every nation on earth--would have to wake up the same morning with the same hallucination! Do you think this possible? Yet you believe this has happened if you believe that time has been lost!
Astronomy Proves It
Finally, we have the scientific proof of astronomy. We quote from the official government statements to the League of Nations, as published August 17, 1926, in an official League document.
The government of Finland presented this observation from one of its astronomers: "The reform [calendar reform before the League] would break the division of the week, which has been followed for thousands of years, and therefore has been hallowed by immemorial use."
The government of France presented the following statements from two of its leading astronomers: "One essential point is that of the continuity of the week ... a continuity which has existed for so many centuries." "The continuity of the week ... is without doubt the most ancient scientific institution bequeathed to us by antiquity." Stated Prof. D. Eginitis, director of the Observatory of Athens, a member of the League Committee, "The continuity of the week ... has crossed the centuries, and all known calendars, still intact."
And we could go on and on. But this is enough. We have presented the proof of history, the proof of the calendar, the proof of the Jewish people, the proof of the martyrs of the true Church, the proof of reason, the proof of science and astronomy.
And, we might add, as positive proof as any is that of the Roman Catholic Church, which through the centuries has preserved its Sunday intact, as the day FOLLOWING the seventh-day Sabbath as kept by Jesus and the early apostles. The Catholic priest today is no more in doubt about his SUNDAY being the true FIRST day of the week, than the Jew is about God's Sabbath.'
http://home.sprynet.com/~pabco/timelost.htm
'What Is the Origin of the 7-Day Week?
Digging into the history of the 7-day week is a very complicated matter. Authorities have very different opinions about the history of the week, and they frequently present their speculations as if they were indisputable facts. The only thing we seem to know for certain about the origin of the 7-day week is that we know nothing for certain.
The common explanation is that the seven-day week was established as imperial calendar in the late Roman empire and furthered by the Christian church for historical reasons. The British Empire used the seven-day week and spread it worldwide. Today the seven-day week is enforced by global business and media schedules, especially television and banking.
....
Has the 7-Day Week Cycle Ever Been Interrupted?
There is no record of the 7-day week cycle ever having been broken. Calendar changes and reform have never interrupted the 7-day cycles. It very likely that the week cycles have run uninterrupted at least since the days of Moses (c. 1400 B.C.E.), possibly even longer.
Some sources claim that the ancient Jews used a calendar in which an extra Sabbath was occasionally introduced. But this is probably not true.'
CHECK LINK
To me it is all solved only if we love and respect ourselves as all words and their opposites, so that every man has a choice in Love of what he does not choose:
'5 One man esteemeth one day above another IN LOVE OF THE DAYS BELOW: another esteemeth every day alike IN THE SAME LOVE. Let every man be fully IN LOVE persuaded in his own mind.
6He that regardeth the day IN LOVE, regardeth it unto the Lord;
and he that IN LOVE regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
He that eateth IN LOVE, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks IN LOVE;
and he that IN LOVE eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks IN LOVE.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live IN LOVE, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die IN LOVE, we die unto the Lord: whether we live IN LOVE therefore, or die IN LOVE, we are the Lord's.
14 I know, and am persuaded IN LOVE by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that IN HATE esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. [...There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. Hamlet II, 2]
15 But if thy brother be grieved IN HATE with thy meat OR YOUR DAY, now walkest thou not charitably/IN LOVE WHEN YOU EAT IN SIGHT OF HIM. IN LOVE Destroy not him with thy meat NOR THY DAY, for whom Christ died IN LOVE.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of BY DOING YOUR GOOD IN HATE OF THE BAD OPPOSITE:'
Here is more WS on it:
Antonio
'In nature there's no blemish but the mind;
None can be call'd deform'd but THOSE IN HATE unkind:
Virtue is beauty, but the beauteous evil
Are empty trunks o'erflourish'd by HATE IN the devil.'
Twelfth Night
[III, 4]
in the ever-present Day of Love for all days as rest days and for all days as work days,
atoz |
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thankful31
Newbie Alert
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: Perhaps |
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| Perhaps we all are already preachers and teachers. Maybe not to a large group of people, but to the ones in our own lives. I do not feel that I possess the ability to reach thousands, but I feel my life and the way in which I live sets an example to those around me. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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atoz, a very long post which only proves the point I have made repeatedly in response to Silver Surfer's posts:
SS claims the bible establishes a Saturday sabbath. I assert that Saturday is found no where in scripture. Scripture is very clear on the observance of the '7th day' sabbath:
Exodus 20:8-11 [Earnestly] remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy (withdrawn from common employment and dedicated to God). (9) Six days you shall labor and do all your work, (10) But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, your daughter, your manservant, your maidservant, your domestic animals, or the sojourner within your gates. (11) For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it [set it apart for His purposes].
Labor 6 days, rest on the 7th. Scripturally I, or anyone else, is under NO obligation to attend 'church' services or anything else on any specific day of any week. We are to work 6 days and rest on the seventh. It just so happens that I work Tuesday through Sunday, and I rest on Monday - the 7th day....
Later, in the Levitical laws there were established specific requirements for worship - this was a construct of the priesthood. SS continues to claim that GOD established the Sabbath as Saturday when He wrote the commandments 'with His very own finger'. I'm simply pointing out that what SS asserts is a lie.
He also chooses to make the claim that the Roman Catholic Church changed the 'sabbath' from Saturday to Sunday, which is a claim in ignorance of scripture. The apostles gathered, fellowshipped, studied, and worshiped on the 'Lord's day', which was determined as the 'first day of the week' (in fact, the reference in Acts is the only time 'day of the week' is mentioned throughout all of scripture). What followed via the traditions of man is the establishment of an 'official' worship tradition on the first day of the week.
Ultimately it comes down to the same thing:
SS claims that those who attend 'church' on Sunday are hell bound, and that the act of obeying a tradition of man (Saturday worship or not) can earn one salvation, or send one to hell.
I personally think that message of 'works = salvation' is anti-scriptural and flies in the face of the Gospel of Christ. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: |
Ultimately it comes down to the same thing:
SS claims that those who attend 'church' on Sunday are hell bound, and that the act of obeying a tradition of man (Saturday worship or not) can earn one salvation, or send one to hell.
I personally think that message of 'works = salvation' is anti-scriptural and flies in the face of the Gospel of Christ. |
revJP,
u are more right than SS is:
Keeping Monday in Love is better from God's perspective of Love than any sabbath keeper who keeps it in Hate of any non-sabbath-keeper.
Being 'right' in the wrong ...attitude
is worse than being 'wrong' in the right...attitude. smile
Not that u are wrong...just wrong from ss' pov.
see Luke 18:9-14 for confirmation.
One thing: it is better to call what ss believes in as 'his truth' he honestly believes in rather than calling it a lie as it is from your pov...since you are tempting him to call what you believe in 'a lie' from his pov rather than the truth u honestly believe in.
All that wd occur to you if you loved yourself as liar.smile
Are you a liar?
I am![Don't worry: I hardly ever lie! When I want to lie, I just tell the truth that nobody beleives!smile]
If u say no, u just told another lie!smile
is ok: people who hate liars tend to tell another lie about their lies.
People who love liars tend to tell the truth about their lies, and do love liars as liars and so help them to love themselves as liars and so help them tell the truth about their lies!
Wd u love God if he were a liar?see 2 thess 2:9-11.
in Love of both the right and the wrong, the lie and the truth,
atoz |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2723
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Not All Meant To Win Souls |
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Every person who gets into heaven will be a 'soul winner'.
Even if it is ONLY their own soul.
Because it is our own decision(s) that determines whether we make it into the Kingdom of God, or not.
No one person...or, being such as satan, can keep a person out of heaven, if they are determined to be there.
As long as the conditions and requirements are met, as laid out in the Bible.....heaven is yours. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Not All Meant To Win Souls |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: |
.....
As long as the conditions and requirements are met, as laid out in the Bible.....heaven is yours. |
That's so right, SS.
And the conditions and requirements are one: that God first calls that person to Christ and to repentance: John 6:44-45.
So all israel and all mankind will be saved as per Rom 11:26, 29.
This means that all those not called are also saved since ultimately God must call them---whenever:
Proverbs 16:
4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
So all the wicked are very good for what God created them for: to see if the ones already clled will love them and God as wicked!
No wonder Paul was moved to exclaim at the sheer briloiance of God's Plan to save all humanity:
Romans 11:
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
I know that you would want all humanity to be saved!
Your wish is guaranteed to come true and come thru since it is also God's Plan to accomplish exactly that!smile
With the One condition & requirement of Love being Love,
atoz |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2723
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Not All Meant To Win Souls |
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| atoz wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: |
.....
As long as the conditions and requirements are met, as laid out in the Bible.....heaven is yours. |
That's so right, SS.
And the conditions and requirements are one: that God first calls that person to Christ and to repentance: John 6:44-45.
So all israel and all mankind will be saved as per Rom 11:26, 29.
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Please don't take scripture out of context with the rest of what the Bible says, OK ?
You have to remember the purpose of the Investigative Judgment Day of God.
This is where God determines who will have eternal life and who will NOT.
It determines who will keep their name in the Book of Life.....and, who will have their names taken OUT of the Book of Life. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Not All Meant To Win Souls |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | atoz wrote: | | Silver Surfer wrote: |
.....
As long as the conditions and requirements are met, as laid out in the Bible.....heaven is yours. |
That's so right, SS.
And the conditions and requirements are one: that God first calls that person to Christ and to repentance: John 6:44-45.
So all israel and all mankind will be saved as per Rom 11:26, 29.
|
Please don't take scripture out of context with the rest of what the Bible says, OK ?
You have to remember the purpose of the Investigative Judgment Day of God.
This is where God determines who will have eternal life and who will NOT.
It determines who will keep their name in the Book of Life.....and, who will have their names taken OUT of the Book of Life. |
Thanx for your correction---since that proves u love me, right?
What about when you don;t DO anything for me---do you still love me at that time?smile
SS,
How do you think God investiages: In Love of in Hate?
How do you think God wrote all words in the bible?
In Love of in Hate?
In Love?
Correct---since God's words are truth: John 17:17,
and God speaks the truth in Love, Eph 4:15,
then God writes and wrote His word in Love.
Therefore, Love is the context of all God's words!smile
So I am always in the context of God when I read or understand or take any scripture in the Text of Love!smile
In the Textus Correctus of Love
that was in the beginning,
that was with God,
that is God,
and that perfectly keeps & investigates all of texts of God's word in the Context of His UnconditionaLove,
atoz |
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galen
Ferret
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that all may evangelize, though not all are Evangelists.
All may prophecy, though not all operate the ministry of a Prophet.
All may teach, though not all operate the ministry of a teacher.
All may pastor, though not all operate the ministry of a pastor.
All may shine light, though not all operate the ministry of an Apostle. |
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atoz
Emperor of the Solar System
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 4189
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| galen wrote: |
I believe that all may evangelize, though not all are Evangelists.
All may prophecy, though not all operate the ministry of a Prophet.
All may teach, though not all operate the ministry of a teacher.
All may pastor, though not all operate the ministry of a pastor.
All may shine light, though not all operate the ministry of an Apostle. |
Poetically and prosaically well pronounced!Smile
Hi Galen,
I say it the opposite way too:
I believe:
All are evangelists, though not all evangelise.
All are prophets, though not all prophesy.
All are teachers, though not all teach.
All are pastor, though not all pastor.
All are apostles, though not all apostletize.
In the Love that means all are Lovers, and all do love,
atoz |
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Silver Surfer
King Kong
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2723
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| galen wrote: | I believe that all may evangelize, though not all are Evangelists.
All may prophecy, though not all operate the ministry of a Prophet.
All may teach, though not all operate the ministry of a teacher.
All may pastor, though not all operate the ministry of a pastor.
All may shine light, though not all operate the ministry of an Apostle. |
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
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