Math 11: 12

kevin · Sea Monkey Joined: 04 Feb 2007 Posts: 12

Can anyone explain this to me.

"And from the days of John the Baptist until nowthe kingdon of heaven sufferth violence, and the violent take it by force."

I have always been taught that heaven was a peaceful place, I don't understand this scripture.

Thanks for any help.

lone-traveler · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject:

Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Wow...

Jesus came to proclaim Peace and the truth of the Kingdom of heaven...
And from the time that John came preaching repentance until the time Jesus was crucified..
Violent and evil tried to confirm the testament of peace by killing the messenger of peace..and peace itself....

It was good news they were recieving..Peace..
But it was their reactions and their way of claiming that peace for themselves...through violence..they tried to take it...

"And from the days of John the Baptist until nowthe kingdon of heaven sufferth violence, and the violent take it by force."

I'm just tossin this around kevin..
just lookin..
God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

tomcat34 · Not So Newbie Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 8

Men are ‘Seizing God’s Kingdom’—How? Dear Sir, Some translations of the Bible can make it hard to get the true meaning. Your Bible uses the words "sufferth violence " and " violence take it by force ". Let me help you if I can.
IN THE spring of the year 29 C.E. John the Baptist began “preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying: ‘Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.”’ (Matt. 3:1, 2) The work of John served to get ready a prepared people who would accept the king of that kingdom and put themselves in line for membership in it. Thus for the first time in human history the “kingdom of the heavens” became a goal toward which men could press.
But an individual’s attaining membership in this heavenly Kingdom was not to be an easy thing. Strenuous effort(to try with force as it may be ) would be required. Alluding to this, the one anointed as King, Jesus Christ, stated: “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it.”—Matt. 11:12.
The Greek verb that conveys the thought of ‘pressing forward’ implies ‘forceful endeavor.’ By whom was this forceful endeavor put forth? By enemy attackers? No, but by persons who believed the preaching of John the Baptist and accepted Jesus Christ as King. Theirs was a determined striving and struggling for the Kingdom. They took hold of the privilege of being prospective members of the Kingdom as if seizing spoils or taking a city by storm. They spared no effort to make that privilege their own. So this was not an attack on heaven as your translation of the Bible might indicate. But an attact on oneself to make changes in their life so as to gain entrance into the kingdom.

Entrance Into the Kingdom. Jesus emphasized the special period of opportunity that had thus arrived. Of his forerunner John the Baptizer, Jesus said: “Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. But from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press [bi·a'ze·tai], and those pressing forward [bi·a·stai'] are seizing it. [Compare AT; also the Zürcher Bibel (German).] For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John.” (Mt 11:10-13) Thus, the days of John’s ministry, which were soon to end with his execution, marked the close of one period, the start of another. Of the Greek verb bi·a'zo·mai used in this text, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words says, “The verb suggests forceful endeavour.” Regarding Matthew 11:12, German scholar Heinrich Meyer states: “In this way is described that eager, irresistible striving and struggling after the approaching Messianic kingdom . . . So eager and energetic (no longer calm and expectant) is the interest in regard to the kingdom. The [bi·a·stai'] are, accordingly, believers [not enemy attackers] struggling hard for its possession.”—Meyer’s Critical and Exegetical Hand-Book to the Gospel of Matthew, .They might struggle so hard that as your translation puts it, might seem to be " violence" or " force ".
Membership in the Kingdom of God, therefore, would not be easy to gain, not like approaching an open city with little or nothing to make entrance difficult. Rather, the Sovereign, God, had placed barriers to shut out any not worthy. (Compare Joh 6:44; 1Co 6:9-11; Ga 5:19-21; Eph 5:5.) Those who would enter must traverse a narrow road, find the narrow gate, keep on asking, keep on seeking, keep on knocking, and the way would be opened. They would find the way to be “narrow” in that it restricts those who follow it from doing things that would result in injury to themselves or others. (Mt 7:7, 8, 13, 14; compare 2Pe 1:10, 11.) They might figuratively have to lose an eye or a hand to gain entrance. (Mr 9:43-47) So the point here is when your translation says that the heavens sufferth violence and is taken by force, it is figuratively speaking as to how hard it would be for us to enter into the kingdom of God. Thank you for your time. Hope this helps. Bob

lone-traveler · Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:44 am Post subject:

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Pro 3:18 She [is] a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy [is every one] that retaineth her.

who is she?

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.

Pro 3:13 ¶ Happy [is] the man [that] findeth wisdom, and the man [that] getteth understanding.
Pro 3:14 For the merchandise of it [is] better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
Pro 3:15 She [is] more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
Pro 3:16 Length of days [is] in her right hand; [and] in her left hand riches and honour.
Pro 3:17 Her ways [are] ways of pleasantness, and all her paths [are] peace.
Pro 3:18 She [is] a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy [is every one] that retaineth her.
Pro 3:19 ¶ The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
Pro 3:20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.
Pro 3:21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:
Pro 3:22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.

tomcat 34 wrote:

MoJo · Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:09 am Post subject:

Welcome to the board, tomcat. Very Happy

Good stuff on your post. There are quite a few scriptures in the gospels which speak of the press of people around Jesus and how often he had to escape from it.

Very Happy

_________________
matt 6: 34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."