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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1265
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 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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45degree, your post is spot on...I'm sure your assumptions are correct regarding individuals included in multiple "signers lists"...
still, if we take the top number, 19,000...that seems to be a significant number...
my point was that, other than the myth of anthropogenic global warming...the bigger and more glaring myth is "consensus"....all of which is beside the point...if 1 million scientists are wrong, they're still wrong....it's the scientific method that should win the day, not democracy nor tryranny...
Almost all of the actual "science" done that P#s refers to
I just watched a report on ABC that "blames" global warming for an ice shelf shearing off the west coast of Antartica...no context regarding how much ice has grown on Antartica (in depth) this season, nor any context of whether this is a normal occurance (it is) or "unique"....just a shocking fact that re-ignite the global warming "doom"...and no, it wasn't the reporter, he quoted "scientists"...that aren't further qualified, identified or anyotherkindafied. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6725
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | Yeah fine, but you did say "as a matter of truth" and I am asking you what exactly you are saying is true in that sentence if it isn't God's existence (which is part of the aft-italicized portion). |
I stated clearly that 'I accept His existence" as a matter of truth.
I cannot say it is a fact for the very reasons I gave P123 regarding what is and is not a fact. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: |
I just watched a report on ABC that "blames" global warming for an ice shelf shearing off the west coast of Antartica...no context regarding how much ice has grown on Antartica (in depth) this season, nor any context of whether this is a normal occurance (it is) or "unique"....just a shocking fact that re-ignite the global warming "doom"...and no, it wasn't the reporter, he quoted "scientists"...that aren't further qualified, identified or anyotherkindafied. |
The 'context' is that our ice caps are melting and our sea levels are going up because the Earth is warming.
Or have you taken several steps backwards? Not only do you deny that humans are causing global warming, but now you're denying global warming completely???
Your viewpoints are both wrong AND dangerous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Ana wrote: | | Yeah fine, but you did say "as a matter of truth" and I am asking you what exactly you are saying is true in that sentence if it isn't God's existence (which is part of the aft-italicized portion). |
I stated clearly that 'I accept His existence" as a matter of truth.
I cannot say it is a fact for the very reasons I gave P123 regarding what is and is not a fact. |
What kind of ridiculous semantic word games are you playing? You claim that the sentence, "God exists." is true. But somehow God's existence is not a fact.
If God's existence is not a fact, then how can the sentence, "God exists." be true??? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6725
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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P123, don't be obtuse. I never claimed | Quote: | | that the sentence, "God exists." is true. But somehow God's existence is not a fact. |
In another thread you want me to moderate a debate and state your logic would be 'pure', and yet you come her and make absurdly fallacious statements.
I won't repeat what I said because I've stated it, and pointed out the clarity of what I stated at least twice now. If you are incapable of understand that, and discussion the truth of the matter then we are done here. I've grown tired of consistently debating stuff you've made up. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1538
Location: BC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | P123, don't be obtuse. I never claimed | Quote: | | that the sentence, "God exists." is true. But somehow God's existence is not a fact. |
In another thread you want me to moderate a debate and state your logic would be 'pure', and yet you come her and make absurdly fallacious statements.
I won't repeat what I said because I've stated it, and pointed out the clarity of what I stated at least twice now. If you are incapable of understand that, and discussion the truth of the matter then we are done here. I've grown tired of consistently debating stuff you've made up. |
Dude, you said that you accept that it is true on faith. So in your mind, it's not a fact that God exists, but you think it's true anyways. Can you honestly not see why that begs clarification? |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Look, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. Language is imprecise in general, and different people can use the same words to mean slightly different things, and that causes confusion. Right now I'm confused about what you meant when you wrote,
| RevJP wrote: |
No, it is not a fact, but I accept His existence through faith as a matter of truth. |
What does 'truth' mean to you? |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
The 'context' is that our ice caps are melting and our sea levels are going up because the Earth is warming. |
Actually, sea rise is consistent with sea rise over the past several centuries...our ice caps periodically melt and grow and the current cycle is consistent with growth/thaw over the past couple of centuries...you think this stuff is static?
| P1234567890 wrote: |
Or have you taken several steps backwards? Not only do you deny that humans are causing global warming, but now you're denying global warming completely??? |
nope...I'm saying we may be in a "warming trend" but that that trend is consistent with historical cycles...and "cycles" by definition involves variability over time...as for "humans caused it", I don't think I can "deny it" because it isn't true, it never was true, and I can't imigine we ever will "cause" it...unless you think we can out-juice the power of the sun.
| P1234567890 wrote: |
Your viewpoints are both wrong AND dangerous. |
A) I'm not wrong B) how could my viewpoint possibly be "dangerous"? or are we now invoking "thought police state" rules? |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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and oh....the discussion about the "truth of God" is not germane to this thread...it's interesting, and germane to this board....just not this thread  just sayin' |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6725
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| You are entirely correct Ponder and I apologize for sideswiping this thread. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: |
Actually, sea rise is consistent with sea rise over the past several centuries...
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No, it isn't. Go ahead and prove me wrong by citing a credible source.
| Pondering wrote: |
our ice caps periodically melt and grow and the current cycle is consistent with growth/thaw over the past couple of centuries...
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Please cite. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Pondering wrote: |
Actually, sea rise is consistent with sea rise over the past several centuries...
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No, it isn't. Go ahead and prove me wrong by citing a credible source. |
"Based on tide gauge data, the rate of global mean sea level rise during the 20th century is in the range 1.0 to 2.0 mm/yr. No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected."
IPCC
First, basic physics...any ice melt in free floating ice or ice suspended over water will not raise ocean levels at all...ice cubes in your drinking glass don't cause the glass to overflow as they melt...
Second, most of the ice melt has not occurred among ice over land...that could cause sea levels to rise, but would have to be significant melting...we'll get more flooding from tsunami's and undersea volcanoes than we will from (ant)artic ice melt.
| P1234567890 wrote: |
| Pondering wrote: |
our ice caps periodically melt and grow and the current cycle is consistent with growth/thaw over the past couple of centuries...
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Please cite. |
[/quote]
Credible source? hard to say..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/24/ice_shelf_collapse/
"The high-profile collapse of some Antarctica's ice shelves is likely the result of natural current fluctuations, not global warming, says a leading British expert on polar climates.
This surprising finding is supported by analysis of data from the European Space Agency's ERS-1 satellite, according to Duncan Wingham, Professor of Climate Physics at University College London. The data, measuring changes in ice thickness across the Antarctic ice sheet using the polar orbiting satellite, show areas of growth from snowfall are as common as areas of decline." |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2358
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| It probably isn't so much the antarctic ice that we need to worry about so much as the glacial ice on Greenland with is of a similar depth as the Antarctic but not quite as large. The ice on Greenland is in fact melting faster than scientists had anticipated. This ice sheet is not floating on the water and will raise the water level as it melts. Just how much remains to be seen. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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possibly...and that seems sound logically....
1820 paper on Greenland ice melting
Link
Current melting similar to 1920-40s period
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210094332.htm
My basic point is that the MSM gives ZERO context, historical reference, etc, etc...only shocking fact that makes things APPEAR to be both new and urgent...and of course, rich white guys fault. It's not just Global warming that is part of this agenda....but global warming is the weakest argument most easy to disprove...
Last edited by Pondering on Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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