I said you are gods.....

Dust · Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: I said you are gods.....

Psalm 82 begins with God standing in the congregation of the mighty, proclaiming that He judges among the gods. His judgement is that they judge unjustly.

In the Psalm God points out the high position which He had previously given them, saying, "I said you are gods, and children of the Most High, but you shall die like men.

The Psalm then reveals who it is who will arise and rightly judge....Arise, O God, judge the earth.

So those who were given the power to judge, God had said to them "you are gods". However, due to their unjust judgements their power to judge was taken away. God Himself is now to arise and judge. Not only was their power to judge taken away, but also the god aspect of unparishability/deathlessness, they shall now die like men. They now have no power over death as they apparently had before thier ill-judgements.

Those who were called gods, now no longer have the power to judge, nor do they have the power over death, and thus are not true-gods at all.

The Bible identifies the existence of many false gods, but acknowledges the actuallity of only ONE true God. To this we see that.....

The Bibles tells us that Jesus is sinless, of ALL others it is written....Romans 3:10
As it is written: “ There is none righteous, no, not one.

Jesus, being sinless, has the power to judge, of which a parallel is apparent in Psalm 82.....Arise, O God, judge the earth; For you shall inherit all nations.

The Scriptures are also quite clear that Jesus has power over death, even of those who are His. As John 10:28 indicates.....And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. Parallel this with John 10:29-30....no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.

....Through all this we know that Jesus has risen to judge the earth, and that it is He who has life, unto eternal life, in Him, posessing power over death, thus Jesus is a true god, and as the Scriptures proclaim there is only ONE true God.

lone-traveler · Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject:

Deu 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left.

Deu 32:37 And he shall say, Where [are] their gods, [their] rock in whom they trusted,

Deu 32:38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, [and] drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, [and] be your protection.

I read this as..where are their leaders..the ones they made god's over them. They have no power, that which was given them is gone....

interesting topic dust

God Bless
Lone

Dust · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1922

Deut 32 is in reference to false gods people serve or feared. YOU MUST READ IN CONTEXT.

Deut 32:16 They began inciting him to jealousy with strange gods;
With detestable things they kept offending him.

17 They went sacrificing to demons, not to God,
Gods whom they had not known,

21 They, for their part, have incited me to jealousy with what is no god;
They have vexed me with their vain idols;

Judges 10:13 As for YOU, YOU abandoned me and took up serving other gods. That is why I shall not save YOU again. 14 Go and call for aid to the gods whom YOU have chosen. Let them be the ones to save YOU in the time of YOUR distress.” 15 But the sons of Israel said to Jehovah: “We have sinned. You yourself do to us according to anything that is good in your eyes. Only deliver us, please, this day.” 16 And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel.

Jer 2:27 They are saying to a tree, ‘You are my father,’ and to a stone, ‘You yourself brought me to birth.’ But to me they have turned the back of the neck and not the face. And in the time of their calamity they will say, ‘Do rise up and save us!’

28 “But where are your gods that you have made for yourself? Let them rise up if they can save you in the time of your calamity. For as the number of your cities your gods have become, O Judah.

-----------------------------

Men made false gods for themsleves out of wood and stone. Such gods are not even alive let alone have the power to save. However if they did worship humans as gods such individuals have no power when Jehovah brings judgement.

This still doesn't nullify: Ps 82:6 “I myself have said, ‘YOU are gods,

Later. Very Happy

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject:

ok..stupid question.. Rolling Eyes

If a cow gives birth to a cow...is the cow that is born a cow?

If God made man in the image and likeness of God..that meaning..If God made man after God kind, then are we not also gods?
and small g because we are sons of and not the Father...

Deu 10:17 For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Jos 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if [it be] in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)

Psa 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.

Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth [it is], that your God [is] a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

And that the real problem is, that when we allow another to be "raised" up higher than the Father himself, then these gods which we fashion with wood and metal after the image of the one we raised up over us, are truly not gods. But wood and metal? Because there is no breath in them, they neither hear nor see nor speak...
But what of those who are alive such as kings and presidents?
Are these to be honoured as gods?
Those which have authority over us? And who gives them that authority? isn't it us ourselves who place them in authority over us?
But then isn't it the Father who puts in our hearts who it is we choose to rule? Ahh...but he allows us to make decisions and lets us learn by our mistakes...

We should not make men as God and we should not consider our ownselves God, but gods we are because we are after the God kind which he made himself.

Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household?
Mat 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

So then by these verses..I understand that it is enough for us to consider ourselves as gods yet not above God. Because God is the creator and the beginning of all gods..which we are.

and even as I write this I can hear the Pharisees and Saducees crying...BLASPHEMER!!
I don't think they understood what an honour God has given to man, to be called the sons of God. Thereby placing his name on us.

Have I not said..Ye are gods?
Yes Lord, you have...but maybe we just don't understand.

God Bless
Lone

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1922

Ps 82:6 is in reference to the kings and judges who excercised power over the common people.

Later. Very Happy

Dust · Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1922

Dust,

The Biblical evidence is that is what Ps 82 was talking about. Do you have a scripture that say all humans are gods?

John 10:34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?

Jesus was showing that if these imperfect kings and judges (who sinned against the law God gave) can be called gods, then certainly God's Son can be a god.

Later. Very Happy

Dust · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject:

TBax, Jesus' reference to PS 82 shows that those who are called children of the Most High were called 'gods' according to the Scriptures.....

Dust · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1922

Dust,

Once again Dust, your interpretation isn't at all what the Bible is saying. You are not interpreting the word "god" according to how the Bible uses it, thus nullifing the scriptures.

Dust · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject:

TBax · King of the Jungle Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 1922

Go back to sleep Dust. # Sleep

You are changing subjects.

If you want to spread your erroneous ideas at least pick the proper topic. And don't expect much of a responce. You cannot learn, and your harping on this is soooooooo played out.

#Nooo...not me!

Oi!

Dust · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject:

TBax,

I am going to extend a hand to you.

I invite you to leave the doctrine of false prophets behind, and embrace the Son of God who reveals God to us....embrace the true WORD of God. You don't need an organization to accomplish this....it can happen right there in your heart.

Pray, and pray hard, asking to talk to the REAL God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Ask Him to show you the truth...to open your eyes. Show Him that you fervently want to find the truth.

He will guide you, but you must set deception and deceivers aside. Your free-will can work for you, but it can work against you as well. You need God inside to become aware of the truth....to SEE the truth. It starts on the inside.

Ask yourself this.......Do I really want to know the truth?

If the answer is truely yes, then, as it is written, seek and ye shall find!

Steven3 · Lion King Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 1205 Location: UK

82:1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!

1. Maybe I'm being dense but I can't see any difference in the two positions being taken in this thread regarding Ps.82. The psalm starts with one of those rare examples of celestial court language (vs.1, actually polytheistic language), but then makes it immediately clear (vs.2-5) that it's talking about unjust rulers or judges. With that in mind surely (vs.6) "You are gods" has to be taken with a bit of irony? It sounds more like something Elijah would say of the Baalites, or Ezekiel of the king of Tyre, or indeed Christ's cutting comments about Capernaum, the Pharisees, and so on.

2. Ps82 isn't actually a theological statement that judges = gods. Yes in the Hebrew OT coming before the judges is three times called "coming before God" but that's very possibly because urim and thummim were used to decide disputes:

Exodus 22:9 For every breach of trust, whether it is for an ox, for a donkey, for a sheep, for a cloak, or for any kind of lost thing, of which one says, ‘This is it,’ the case of both parties shall come before God. The one whom God condemns shall pay double to his neighbor.

Given this it's more likely that all Ps82 shows is that the judges/princes thought they were "gods", or acted as capriciously as (pagan) "gods".

3. As for Christ's comment on Ps82. We'd need to first establish is he looking from the standpoint of the original psalmist (in which case Jesus is wise to the Elijahesque mocking), or the way that the 1stC Pharisees read the Psalm (which was what? that's an open question, I'd be interested to know whether Jewish texts of the period equate judges = gods?)

What's the disagreement on this thread again?? Very Happy

God bless
Steven