 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2462
Location: Salem Oregon
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I've already read just about everything that is on this forum about global warming/ climate change. I've read Green peace and others and I still find it rather a matter of fate.
Get used to it please. Even 5 degrees will not kill everyone nor will it create a new type of Earth either. Surely those who live by the oceans will have to move. Lots of time for that to happen. The agricultural areas will change so what, we can move those farms or get new farms in other areas.
Why are we so resistant to change. Are we now incapable of it? Why do people insist upon living so close to the beach, and then complain about the ocean, again stupid. Given the warnings we can adapt to just about anything, all we have to do is start adapting instead of trying to preserve the old way things were.
Life is all about change anyway isn't it? So instead of stopping change let it come. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1549
Location: BC
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dim12trav wrote: |
Why are we so resistant to change. Are we now incapable of it? Why do people insist upon living so close to the beach, and then complain about the ocean, again stupid. Given the warnings we can adapt to just about anything, all we have to do is start adapting instead of trying to preserve the old way things were.
Life is all about change anyway isn't it? So instead of stopping change let it come. |
Right, so consume less oil products and reduce, reuse, repair, recycle. Get used to it; don't resist the change. Buy energy efficient lightbulbs, get solar panels, etc. Right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ana and dim...in short, I'd say you're both right...the two issues are separate...
My problem is that the Global Fatalists are using fear mongering to compel people to do what Ana proposes instead of logical, convincing arguments that use market pressures to encourage what seems to be "good ol' common sense".
Here's an example:
California is currently contemplating a ban on "traditional" light bulbs. It's retarded. What are you going to do, put people in jail for using standard bulbs? Clog up the courts with more hearings for "illicit lightbulb use?" ridiculous....
Now instead of starting a blackmarket for standard light bulbs, how about this? Levy a production tax on light bulb manufacturing, of say $5 a bulb for every standard bulb they produce (which is somewhere around 50 billion light bulbs a year as an industry), WHILE offering a tax credit for the actual costs incurred in retooling their factories PLUS a $1 tax credit for each eco-friendly micro-florescent bulb manufactured. Then, provide a tax write-off for consumers for micro-florescent bulb purchases for the next 5 years. THAT's how government can regulate the marketplace and change social behavior.
Remember, you draw more flies to honey than vinegar. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1549
Location: BC
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: |
My problem is that the Global Fatalists are using fear mongering to compel people to do what Ana proposes instead of logical, convincing arguments that use market pressures to encourage what seems to be "good ol' common sense". |
Well, The benefits should also be economical...
| Pondering wrote: |
California is currently contemplating a ban on "traditional" light bulbs. It's retarded. What are you going to do, put people in jail for using standard bulbs? Clog up the courts with more hearings for "illicit lightbulb use?" ridiculous.... |
More likely, vendors would be prohibited from selling them, homeowners would have to replace illegal bulbs with legal ones prior to selling, landlords and other commercial ventures would need to comply to avoid issues (and would want to because they're economical - as a landlord I'm happy to supply my tenants with energy efficient bulbs since I pay their utilities).
| Pondering wrote: |
Now instead of starting a blackmarket for standard light bulbs, how about this? Levy a production tax on light bulb manufacturing, of say $5 a bulb for every standard bulb they produce (which is somewhere around 50 billion light bulbs a year as an industry), WHILE offering a tax credit for the actual costs incurred in retooling their factories PLUS a $1 tax credit for each eco-friendly micro-florescent bulb manufactured.
Then, provide a tax write-off for consumers for micro-florescent bulb purchases for the next 5 years. THAT's how government can regulate the marketplace and change social behavior.
|
This is a good idea. I like the tax thing. BC already implements something a little like that. It's not the same, but it's still meant to encourage buying energy efficient bulbs. Our power provider will give you some bulbs for free, to get you started, and I think you can buy them at a discount through them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pondering...
maybe you can pass that thought through some hands and plant a seed here and there to get the ball rolling?
It's sounds like a very good idea to me..  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the kind words....the governing stuff...pretty simple really 
I'll hit you up when I run for election as Benevolent Dictator
Free pie on Mondays!
I just get so frustrated...part of it is our media and celebrity driven lifestyle right now...Politicians are looking for attention and we treat them like minor TV actors (which some of them were) vice statesmen...and despite the huge number of lawyers (presumably well educated) they seem soooooooo dumb sooooo often. Maybe the actuall law will make more sense than the article I read. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
See...now here's the kind of thing that is driving me nuts.
First, Hilary Clinton says she'd like to take Exxon's record profits and put it into a Federal Strategic Reserver. Not give it back to you mind...no, give it to the government 
Then, as I'm looking for some energy production/consumption facts, (from our own Dept of Energy),
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/contents.html
I learn all kinds of interesting factiods...like coal is stil (by an overwhelming margin) our primary source of fuel for electrical generation. Petroleum consumption is 1/20th of coal. Granted, coal is a fossil fuel and so burning it released CO2, but...I don't hear anyone screaming about dwindling coal reserves? A need to conserve coal?
Finally, our own EPA is all over the "global warming is caused by people" bus...but at least says...."we're still not sure why".... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6811
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: |
It doesn't "confirm"...it "restates." There is a difference.
I don't want to chase you all over 3 threads again, so I'll not go into detail and I've already ranted in the other thread about this report, so...I'll just move along now |
Which is more reasonable... That the entire report is a big conspiracy to mislead the world's people... or that maybe, just maybe there's some merit to it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6811
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dim12trav wrote: |
Get used to it please. Even 5 degrees will not kill everyone nor will it create a new type of Earth either. |
You haven't really thought this through. Human civilization is COMPLETELY dependent on the weather. The ONLY reason we were ever even able to stop grunting and start civilizations 8,000 years ago or so was because we were lucky and there was an especially long gap between ice ages.
Our fate is intimately tied to the weather. A few years of drought could easily mean hundreds of millions of human deaths due to starvation.
An increase of 5 degrees in the Earth's average temperature would be absolutely catastrophic, because that would mean that the temperature at the poles would increase by like 25 degrees. We could kiss our ice caps goodbye.
And what would happen then? You seem to think that a few people in Florida might have to move to higher ground or other states, and that would be the end of it. You couldn't be more wrong.
First of all, consider the fact that we have about 6 billion people on the planet today, and we're ALREADY at each other's throats because of resource contention. We're ALREADY destroying the planet's ecosystems at an unprecedented rate. We are literally in the middle of the largest mass extinction in the history of life, including those times when massive asteroids hit the planet.
Now imagine how things will be 50 or 100 years from now, when our ice caps are totally gone. By that time, there will be something like 11 billion people on the planet. But remember, the number of resources are fixed. This means that we'll have almost twice as many people, and like I said, we're ALREADY killing each other and fighting wars over resources.
Now throw into the mix the fact that the sea levels go up by about 3 meters or so. This will displace something like a billion people and turn them into refugees. Where are they going to go? Just take Bangladesh as an example. Pretty much the entire inhabited portion of the country is at sea level. We're talking like 100 million refugees right there. They'll completely destabilize the region.
And further complicating the issue will be the fact that we'll face much longer and harsher droughts than ever before, which means that we're not going to have enough food. Do you remember how sad it was to watch the starvation in Ethiopia a couple of decades ago? Compared to what we're going to see, that was a picnic.
Another thing which will happen is that fresh water will become a resource over which wars will be fought. With our glaciers gone, and with so many more people, there won't be nearly enough fresh water to go around. It's going to be really bad...
I think you're totally underestimating how grave the situation will be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6811
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: |
My problem is that the Global Fatalists are using fear mongering to compel people to do what Ana proposes instead of logical, convincing arguments that use market pressures to encourage what seems to be "good ol' common sense".
|
Kind of like my idea to switch the economy over to electric cars? This idea is exactly what you're asking for: using market pressures to get the job done (and cut off the Mideast from our money). But you don't seem very exited about it...
| Pondering wrote: |
Now instead of starting a blackmarket for standard light bulbs, how about this? Levy a production tax on light bulb manufacturing, of say $5 a bulb for every standard bulb they produce (which is somewhere around 50 billion light bulbs a year as an industry), WHILE offering a tax credit for the actual costs incurred in retooling their factories PLUS a $1 tax credit for each eco-friendly micro-florescent bulb manufactured. Then, provide a tax write-off for consumers for micro-florescent bulb purchases for the next 5 years. THAT's how government can regulate the marketplace and change social behavior. |
I totally agree with you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6811
Location: Victoria, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pondering wrote: | | but...I don't hear anyone screaming about dwindling coal reserves? A need to conserve coal? |
My understanding is that we have way more coal than we could use in the next thousand years. There is much less oil than there is coal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6845
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was wondering about evolution and global climate change.
We, as we have been told, evovled. We are an adaptable species, so what makes one think that a species as intelligent and adaptable as humanity could not adapt to the changes in the global climate? Will the farms be gone overnight? Certainly not. Will the icecaps be gone overnight? I've been told it will take 50 to 100 years. Are humans so static and unevolving as to become decimated by the gradual changes in our world?
I don't think so.
What will die and go away? Our way of life as we know it today. Not our species, just the way we live. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | I was wondering about evolution and global climate change.
We, as we have been told, evovled. We are an adaptable species, so what makes one think that a species as intelligent and adaptable as humanity could not adapt to the changes in the global climate? Will the farms be gone overnight? Certainly not. Will the icecaps be gone overnight? I've been told it will take 50 to 100 years. Are humans so static and unevolving as to become decimated by the gradual changes in our world?
I don't think so.
What will die and go away? Our way of life as we know it today. Not our species, just the way we live. |
Wrong...and to think so just shows stupidity....Study oceanography..the oceans will die with it as they already are..due to just a coupla of degree changes....coral reefs are dying right now.whale food is dying..fish are dying...etc.....and with the death of the ocean...great changes in weather...i mean catstrophic weather problems....so us humans need to stop bein so selfish and realize we inhabit the earth...and need to respect it...you can only stick your head in the sand a little while longer.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| P1234567890 wrote: | | dim12trav wrote: |
Get used to it please. Even 5 degrees will not kill everyone nor will it create a new type of Earth either. |
You haven't really thought this through. Human civilization is COMPLETELY dependent on the weather. The ONLY reason we were ever even able to stop grunting and start civilizations 8,000 years ago or so was because we were lucky and there was an especially long gap between ice ages.
Our fate is intimately tied to the weather. A few years of drought could easily mean hundreds of millions of human deaths due to starvation.
An increase of 5 degrees in the Earth's average temperature would be absolutely catastrophic, because that would mean that the temperature at the poles would increase by like 25 degrees. We could kiss our ice caps goodbye.
And what would happen then? You seem to think that a few people in Florida might have to move to higher ground or other states, and that would be the end of it. You couldn't be more wrong.
First of all, consider the fact that we have about 6 billion people on the planet today, and we're ALREADY at each other's throats because of resource contention. We're ALREADY destroying the planet's ecosystems at an unprecedented rate. We are literally in the middle of the largest mass extinction in the history of life, including those times when massive asteroids hit the planet.
Now imagine how things will be 50 or 100 years from now, when our ice caps are totally gone. By that time, there will be something like 11 billion people on the planet. But remember, the number of resources are fixed. This means that we'll have almost twice as many people, and like I said, we're ALREADY killing each other and fighting wars over resources.
Now throw into the mix the fact that the sea levels go up by about 3 meters or so. This will displace something like a billion people and turn them into refugees. Where are they going to go? Just take Bangladesh as an example. Pretty much the entire inhabited portion of the country is at sea level. We're talking like 100 million refugees right there. They'll completely destabilize the region.
And further complicating the issue will be the fact that we'll face much longer and harsher droughts than ever before, which means that we're not going to have enough food. Do you remember how sad it was to watch the starvation in Ethiopia a couple of decades ago? Compared to what we're going to see, that was a picnic.
Another thing which will happen is that fresh water will become a resource over which wars will be fought. With our glaciers gone, and with so many more people, there won't be nearly enough fresh water to go around. It's going to be really bad...
I think you're totally underestimating how grave the situation will be. |
Exactly...and it only takes a few minutes of googling to find all the links that show this on its way.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | And further complicating the issue will be the fact that we'll face much longer and harsher droughts than ever before, which means that we're not going to have enough food. Do you remember how sad it was to watch the starvation in Ethiopia a couple of decades ago? Compared to what we're going to see, that was a picnic. |
could be how canabalism got started?
could be when we become so hungry that we become irrational, and we begin to pick and choose who is next on the food chain...not what..
What are you going to eat first? the sick diseased ill ?
or the healthy fat and ripe ones?
Lam 2:19 Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the Lord: lift up thy hands toward him for the life of thy young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street.
Lam 2:20 ¶ Behold, O LORD, and consider to whom thou hast done this. Shall the women eat their fruit, [and] children of a span long? shall the priest and the prophet be slain in the sanctuary of the Lord?
Lam 2:21 The young and the old lie on the ground in the streets: my virgins and my young men are fallen by the sword; thou hast slain [them] in the day of thine anger; thou hast killed, [and] not pitied.
Lam 2:22 Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed.
In the real world, full of real catastrophes..can you see how this could even be a possibility?
They blame the Lord..God says..blame yourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
