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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2534
Location: Salem Oregon
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 Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Trinity: your faith in the Iraqis to actually perform this procedure will be tested in the next few weeks and months. In the two tests of this previously they failed completely. Sadr stopped it by pulling his political strings, Maliki could do nothing.
We will see wont we... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | Trinity: your faith in the Iraqis to actually perform this procedure will be tested in the next few weeks and months. In the two tests of this previously they failed completely. Sadr stopped it by pulling his political strings, Maliki could do nothing.
We will see wont we... |
So Far So Good
It does make me wonder why Americans or those in the west are so eager to sell them out.  What worries me is that regardless of what happens now, people have become so embolden insisting that this surge won't work, that if it does, or at least appear like it is going to work... what are they going to do or say then...  They will do everything they can to preserve their political face, to include hurting the effort. I have little doubt that the gaggle of those lining up for a shot at the white house now will stop at nothing in their quest... to include, the selling out of those who have provided them that opportunity.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7562
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
It does make me wonder why Americans or those in the west are so eager to sell them out. What worries me is that regardless of what happens now, people have become so embolden insisting that this surge won't work, that if it does, or at least appear like it is going to work... what are they going to do or say then... They will do everything they can to preserve their political face, to include hurting the effort. I have little doubt that the gaggle of those lining up for a shot at the white house now will stop at nothing in their quest... to include, the selling out of those who have provided them that opportunity. |
I think politicians are evil and will screw anyone if there's something in it for them.
But don't think for a second that George Bush and friends are any different. If there's anyone who screwed the troops over more than anyone else, it was them.
After all, they're the ones who sent the army into Iraq knowing full well that there weren't any connections between Sept. 11th and Saddam.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | But don't think for a second that George Bush and friends are any different. If there's anyone who screwed the troops over more than anyone else, it was them. |
Odd... that is not what I hear from the troops. The only complaining I hear is that people have no idea what is really going on over there. I think I have spoken with a total of two soldiers who beleive we should not be there... one was because his wife left him while he was deployed, and the other was an idiot to begin with.  I do know one thing P... the troops are not the ones who felt they have been screwed.
| Quote: | | After all, they're the ones who sent the army into Iraq knowing full well that there weren't any connections between Sept. 11th and Saddam. |
Do we really need to rehash this P? I mean, come on. You can make this strawman argument all you want.. but it never going to gain anymore creditability. That was not the reason we went in there for... period… it was for WMD.
Now, if you want to argue that little piece, then you might have valid argument. However, to state that we went after Saddam because of 9/11 is simply not true.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7562
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Odd... that is not what I hear from the troops. The only complaining I hear is that people have no idea what is really going on over there. I think I have spoken with a total of two soldiers who beleive we should not be there... one was because his wife left him while he was deployed, and the other was an idiot to begin with. I do know one thing P... the troops are not the ones who felt they have been screwed.
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I'd like to see a poll on this. Surely someone has done a survey...
| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | After all, they're the ones who sent the army into Iraq knowing full well that there weren't any connections between Sept. 11th and Saddam. |
Do we really need to rehash this P? I mean, come on. You can make this strawman argument all you want.. but it never going to gain anymore creditability. That was not the reason we went in there for... period… it was for WMD.
Now, if you want to argue that little piece, then you might have valid argument. However, to state that we went after Saddam because of 9/11 is simply not true. |
I completely agree with you that WMDs were one of the lies that the administration used to drum up public support for the war.
As for you saying that the link between Saddam and Sept. 11th was not a justification given by the Bush administration for attacking Iraq, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!? Every second talking point had to do with links between Al Quaeda and Saddam! Do you have amnesia?!?
Bush's cabinet hit every single t.v. talk and news show and wouldn't shut up about the links between Saddam and Al Quaeda (and therefore Sept. 11th). It's ALL we heard for months leading up to the war!!! How can you be denying this now?!?
Here's Cheney on Meet The Press (http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/cheneymeetthepress.htm):
| Quote: | | But we also have to address the question of where might these terrorists acquire weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, biological weapons, nuclear weapons? And Saddam Hussein becomes a prime suspect in that regard because of his past track record and because we know he has, in fact, developed these kinds of capabilities, chemical and biological weapons. We know he’s used chemical weapons. We know he’s reconstituted these programs since the Gulf War. We know he’s out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons and we know that he has a long-standing relationship with various terrorist groups, including the al-Qaeda organization. |
Here's one of my favorite lies (about nuclear weapons, and not the link with Al Qaeda):
| Quote: | | We know that based on intelligence that he has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He’s had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. |
Do you think it's an accident that some huge percentage of Fox News viewers thought that many of the Sept. 11th hijackers were Iraqis???
The Bush administration clearly and PURPOSEFULLY tried to get the American public to believe that there was a strong connection between Sept. 11th and Saddam.
Dick Clarke clearly states that he was ordered to find such a link.
Or even better, from Bush's own mouth:
| Quote: | | The use of armed forces against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. [Bush’s Letter to Congress, 3/21/03] |
Trinity, it's pretty amazing how quickly you're forgetting the events and the rhetoric that led up to the Iraq war. It's OBVIOUS that the Bush Administration tried VERY HARD to link Saddam with Sept. 11th.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | I'd like to see a poll on this. Surely someone has done a survey... |
I talk with them virtually every day...
| Quote: | | I completely agree with you that WMDs were one of the lies that the administration used to drum up public support for the war. |
"The administration" lied? Did the Canadian Intelligence Service lie then? The CIA? MI6? Israeli Intelligence? Egyptian Intelligence? Saudi Intelligence? Syrian Intelligence? Jordanian Intelligence? French... German... Russian... did all of these intelligence agencies lie too? And if so, how did we manage to convince all of them to keep their mouths shut about it? What about the Iraqi Generals... were they lying?
No... if you are going to state that 'the administration' lied, you are going to then have to demonstrate that the rest of the world's intelligence agencies lied too.
| Quote: | | As for you saying that the link between Saddam and Sept. 11th was not a justification given by the Bush administration for attacking Iraq, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!? Every second talking point had to do with links between Al Queda and Saddam! Do you have amnesia?!? |
No... the linkage was those who support terrorism. If you are talking about the meeting between the Iraqi official and the Al Queda head in Europe... I don't think that was ever proven not to have occurred... but the intelligence at the time indicated that there was a meeting.
| Quote: | | But we also have to address the question of where might these terrorists acquire weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, biological weapons, nuclear weapons? And Saddam Hussein becomes a prime suspect in that regard because of his past track record and because we know he has, in fact, developed these kinds of capabilities, chemical and biological weapons. We know he’s used chemical weapons. We know he’s reconstituted these programs since the Gulf War. We know he’s out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons and we know that he has a long-standing relationship with various terrorist groups, including the al-Qaeda organization. |
And there is nothing false in that statement based on the intelligence we had at the time. What you are trying to do is demonstrate that Cheney was lying... based on what we know today... not then. You are simply wrong on this.
| Quote: | | We know that based on intelligence that he has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He’s had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. |
Yea... and this was proven incorrect when? By who? Joe Wilson? That guy? Clinton's Ambassador? Yeah yeah... got it.
| Quote: | | Do you think it's an accident that some huge percentage of Fox News viewers thought that many of the Sept. 11th hijackers were Iraqis??? |
Oh my.. here we go with the Fox News thing-y-ma-jig again...
| Quote: | | Dick Clarke clearly states that he was ordered to find such a link. |
Dick Clark has been demonstrated to be a liar... nothing more. He lied about getting demoted... and then didn't like it... he is a disgruntled employ out ot make a name for himself and sell a few books.
| Quote: | Or even better, from Bush's own mouth:
| Quote: | | The use of armed forces against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. [Bush’s Letter to Congress, 3/21/03] |
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OK.. he names Iraq... and then it states 'including those nations'. Meaning, two different entities.
| Quote: | | Trinity, it's pretty amazing how quickly you're forgetting the events and the rhetoric that led up to the Iraq war. It's OBVIOUS that the Bush Administration tried VERY HARD to link Saddam with Sept. 11th. |
No... I think quite the opposite is true. The shrill Bush hating mantra has never been so loud and forgetful of key facts that permeate their falsehoods. Facts are facts... and the facts were that at that time, we could not afford someone who had known ties to terrorist organizations, someone had had bee nknown to sponsor terrorist organizations, someone who had demonstrated the compunction to WMD... against his enemies, violated virtually all rules of international law and protocol despite the advice of even his allies...
You are Monday morning quarterbacking and its nothing but cheap rhetoric.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7562
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
I talk with them virtually every day...
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All of them? I want to see a poll.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
And there is nothing false in that statement based on the intelligence we had at the time. What you are trying to do is demonstrate that Cheney was lying... based on what we know today... not then. You are simply wrong on this.
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It's obvious to everyone on the planet that the Bush administration was knowingly and calculatingly trying to mislead the American people. You just seem to love them for some inexplicable reason and seem to be willing to defend them no matter what they did.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | We know that based on intelligence that he has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He’s had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. |
Yea... and this was proven incorrect when? By who? Joe Wilson? That guy? Clinton's Ambassador? Yeah yeah... got it.
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This was proven incorrect the instant Cheney said it. It was transparently obvious to everyone on the planet that Saddam had not 'reconstituted nuclear weapons'. There was just no way that he had the resources to do that after the first gulf war.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | Do you think it's an accident that some huge percentage of Fox News viewers thought that many of the Sept. 11th hijackers were Iraqis??? |
Oh my.. here we go with the Fox News thing-y-ma-jig again...
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This is not a rebuttal. I'm giving you a fact which shows that the Bush administration's disinformation campaign worked like a charm. You cannot deny that a lot of Americans believed that many of the hijackers were Iraqis. Do you want me to cite and link to the polls?
| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | Or even better, from Bush's own mouth:
| Quote: | | The use of armed forces against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. [Bush’s Letter to Congress, 3/21/03] |
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OK.. he names Iraq... and then it states 'including those nations'. Meaning, two different entities.
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Listen to yourself making excuses for the guy! Apparently the subtlety that you are able to explain away got by millions of Americans, because for some mysterious and magical reason, they came to the conclusion that Saddam played a role in Sept. 11th. I wonder how so many millions of Americans were able to come to such a false conclusion simultaneously... What a coincidence! It couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the administration's talking points which they repeated ad nauseum for weeks on end on every major network and radio station...
| Trinity1 wrote: |
No... I think quite the opposite is true. The shrill Bush hating mantra has never been so loud and forgetful of key facts that permeate their falsehoods. Facts are facts... and the facts were that at that time, we could not afford someone who had known ties to terrorist organizations, someone had had bee nknown to sponsor terrorist organizations, someone who had demonstrated the compunction to WMD... against his enemies, violated virtually all rules of international law and protocol despite the advice of even his allies...
You are Monday morning quarterbacking and its nothing but cheap rhetoric. |
Trinity, I am rubber and you are glue. The FACTS are pretty clear:
1. The only WMDs which REALLY matter are nuclear weapons.
2. There was no way in hell that Saddam had a nuclear program, let alone nuclear weapons after Sept. 11th.
3. The administration explicitly said that he did. This was an explicit lie.
4. The administration very purposefully tried to link Saddam with Sept. 11th, even though he had nothing to do with it. Nothing. And it worked.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | All of them? I want to see a poll. |
I've spoken with four today... none of them think they are getting screwed by going to Iraq. Two of them actually are looking forward to going back as they don't have to pay income taxes while they are deployed. Call it sick... twisted... or what you want... that’s a soldier for ya. 
| Quote: | | It's obvious to everyone on the planet that the Bush administration was knowingly and calculatingly trying to mislead the American people. You just seem to love them for some inexplicable reason and seem to be willing to defend them no matter what they did. |
I have my disagreements with Bush... and there are plenty... but this one I happen to agree with. The intelligence we had then.. not now.. then.. when the decision had to made... leadership had to be demonstrated and exercised.. .then... when Saddam was thumbing his nose at everything we did up until that point... based on what we knew THEN he was not lying as you insist.
| Quote: | | This was proven incorrect the instant Cheney said it. It was transparently obvious to everyone on the planet that Saddam had not 'reconstituted nuclear weapons'. There was just no way that he had the resources to do that after the first gulf war. |
See... you are being misleading here... Cheney did not say he had reconstituted his program. He said Saddam was trying to reconstitute his program... which happened to be true. Funny how you missed that one.
| Quote: | | Listen to yourself making excuses for the guy! |
Good night P... you are calling the man a liar... and ignoring basic rules in English grammar to validate your point... I'm not making excuses for anyone here... you are not objectively applying what was stated... period.
| Quote: | | Apparently the subtlety that you are able to explain away got by millions of Americans, because for some mysterious and magical reason, they came to the conclusion that Saddam played a role in Sept. 11th. I wonder how so many millions of Americans were able to come to such a false conclusion simultaneously... What a coincidence! It couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the administration's talking points which they repeated ad nauseum for weeks on end on every major network and radio station... |
I'm thinking that millions of Americans apparently came to this conclusion for pretty much the same reason millions of Americans believe exactly what you are saying here using the same criteria. One lie is no greater than the other in this case... you pick one that you think the Americans are gullible on... and I'll show the same thing with yours.
| Quote: | | Trinity, I am rubber and you are glue. The FACTS are pretty clear: |
That sounds kinky... rephrase it please.
| Quote: | | 1. The only WMDs which REALLY matter are nuclear weapons. |
Tell that to the Kurds. What you are doing is cheapening the worth of their lives...
| Quote: | | 2. There was no way in hell that Saddam had a nuclear program, let alone nuclear weapons after Sept. 11th. |
After the Persian Gulf War in 1991 we discovered that he was a hell of alot further along in his nuclear program than we had ever expected... we then send inspectors in to figure this out. Inspectors are then kicked out... and we are suppose to do what? Trust him? Baloney P. We are talking about a nuclear weapon. We are talking about devastating not only a large group of people in a slit second, but essentially throwing the worlds economy into the crapper. You know just as well as I do if he, or any other loon over in that part of the world ever got a hold of one of those things and set it off, the worlds economy would collapse over night. The standard of living for 99% of the worlds population would be thrown back 100 years in less than a week. Chaos... the rule of law... worst case scenario is now the norm.
You have the luxury of making that conclusion today... only because he bit the bullet on that fact... not the other way around.
| Quote: | | 3. The administration explicitly said that he did. This was an explicit lie. |
No they didn't.
| Quote: |
4. The administration very purposefully tried to link Saddam with Sept. 11th, even though he had nothing to do with it. Nothing. And it worked. |
The intelligence at the time indicated that there might have been a link... sorry... again.. you have the luxury of criticizing this decision or the intelligence now... it is obvious to me that you are enjoying this luxury... and will continue to enjoy it because there are people out there right now ensuring that this worst case scenario doesn't go off in Toronto.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7562
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: |
This was proven incorrect the instant Cheney said it. It was transparently obvious to everyone on the planet that Saddam had not 'reconstituted nuclear weapons'. There was just no way that he had the resources to do that after the first gulf war. |
See... you are being misleading here... Cheney did not say he had reconstituted his program. He said Saddam was trying to reconstitute his program... which happened to be true. Funny how you missed that one.
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Trinity, please read what I'm about to write carefully, because the details are important. On Meet The Press, Dick Cheney said, (and I quote):
| Dick Cheney wrote: |
We know that based on intelligence that he has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He’s had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.
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I don't know how much clearer he could have been. Cheney was CLEARLY saying that Saddam had nuclear weapons, or at the VERY least that he had reconstituted his nuclear weapons program. Your interpretation of events (that Cheney was just saying that Saddam was TRYING to reconstitute his nuclear program) is objectively false.
Please read his quote. It is clear. Cheney is not talking about Saddam 'trying'. He's talking past tense.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: |
4. The administration very purposefully tried to link Saddam with Sept. 11th, even though he had nothing to do with it. Nothing. And it worked. |
The intelligence at the time indicated that there might have been a link... |
No Trinity, the intelligence NEVER indicated that there might be link between Sadam and Sept. 11th. If you don't believe me, then believe your president's own words:
| George Bush wrote: |
We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks
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_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It's obvious to everyone on the planet that the Bush administration was knowingly and calculatingly trying to mislead the American people. |
Hmmm.... last time I checked I lived on the planet, and since it isn't 'obvious' to me that would mean your assertion is wrong. An error or a calculated untruth?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7562
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | It's obvious to everyone on the planet that the Bush administration was knowingly and calculatingly trying to mislead the American people. |
Hmmm.... last time I checked I lived on the planet, and since it isn't 'obvious' to me that would mean your assertion is wrong. An error or a calculated untruth? |
Have you looked at the quotes above? In particular, have a look at the Cheney quote.
You guys are military men. You know something about this. It simply was not possible for Saddam to put together a nuclear weapons program after the first gulf war! His country was in shambles! His economy was shot! UN sanctions choked any ambitions that he might have had!
Iran is having a hard time building nuclear weapons right NOW, and they're CONSIDERABLY stronger than UN Sanctioned Iraq was after the first gulf war!
Look at Cheney's quote again! He is clearly and unambiguously saying that since the first gulf war, Saddam had built nuclear weapons. You seriously think that this was not a lie?!?
You can accuse Cheney of a lot of things, but he's certainly not stupid. This was not a mistake on his part. It was a lie.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
No Trinity, the intelligence NEVER indicated that there might be link between Sadam and Sept. 11th. If you don't believe me, then believe your president's own words:
| George Bush wrote: |
We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks
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Hold on a second... didn't you just say that Bush did link the two? That he did say there was a link... now, you cite where he said there wasn't a link.
Which one is it?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7562
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Hold on a second... didn't you just say that Bush did link the two? That he did say there was a link... now, you cite where he said there wasn't a link.
Which one is it? |
It's both, but at different times. Prior to the invasion, the administration was trying its very hardest to link Saddam to Sept. 11th. They even stopped hunting for the REAL guy behind Sept. 11th (remember, that guy called Osama), and instead focused all of their resources on Iraq and Saddam.
Then, after the Iraq war went sour and public opinion turned against it, reporters FINALLY started asking questions, at which point Bush had to come clean and admit that there never was any link between the two.
There's no inconsistency in what I'm saying. The only inconsistency is in what Bush and friends said.
But let's not forget why I brought Bush's quote up: by his own admission, there never was any link between Saddam and Sept. 11th.
So why is it that at one point 70% of the American public believed that Saddam was personally involved in the attacks?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7562
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Another black eye in Iraq:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/05/iraq.lawmaker/index.html
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1369
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