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Nobby
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Joined: 16 Sep 2002
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Location: Missouri
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity, the vast majority of astronomers say that there are stars which are 10 billion light-years away from us, and that their light has reached us. Are they right or are they wrong? |
I'm not sure. We have talked about the science behind measuring these distances and how truly subjective it is.
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Like I said, you've got no respect for science! Astronomy isn't subjective at all! It's an objective science!
Your level of doubt about what scientists say can only be described as disrespect!
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Your level of doubt about what scientists say can only be described as disrespect! |
Really? Is skepticism synonomous with disrespect?
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity, the vast majority of astronomers say that there are stars which are 10 billion light-years away from us, and that their light has reached us. Are they right or are they wrong? |
I'm not sure. We have talked about the science behind measuring these distances and how truly subjective it is.
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Like I said, you've got no respect for science! Astronomy isn't subjective at all! It's an objective science!
Your level of doubt about what scientists say can only be described as disrespect! |
Hold on a sec here... I am doubting that we can measure the distance to an object 1 billion light years away... and you say that I have no reason to... or shouldn't doubt the 'science' behind that measurement?
P... this is basic geometry. The furthest distance we can occupy the base on this equation is less than 20 light minutes. The assumed distance to these stars is not one light year (26,280 times that distance), nor is it 10 light years (262,820 times that distance), nor 100 years (2,628,200 times that distance, nor 1000 light years (which is 26,282,000 times that distance)… or millions of light years… you are talking billions… which is exponentially much much much higher. The angle for this geometrical equation, even out to 100 light years is almost beyond any practical application of observable science can produce. The rest of it then becomes philosophical, or an extrapolation, or…. A guess.
The difference between you an I is that I will question these so called experts… and when challenged, critically analyzed, etc… it just doesn’t add up.
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Astronomers don't use geometry like you suggest to measure massive distances.
They use that with relatively close objects, but with far objects, all you have to do is pick out a galaxy, get out your ruler, and see what its width is on the telescope lens. Since you know the power of the telescope, and you know approximately how big galaxies are, it's pretty easy to figure out how far away it is.
You thought that when the astronomers tell us that a galaxy is 10 billion light-years away, they were just guessing?
Need I repeat my chorus? (You don't have very much respect for these guys...)
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5147
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Guys, I moved your thread here, seems like a better place for it! 
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Much Love Nobby
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | | Hey Guys, I moved your thread here, seems like a better place for it! |
Thanks, Nobby!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | Your level of doubt about what scientists say can only be described as disrespect! |
Really? Is skepticism synonomous with disrespect? |
Skepticism is fine. I'm a skeptic, and so is every other scientist. As a scientist, you're SUPPOSED to be skeptical.
But the skepticism that religious people often show towards science goes well beyond that and into the realm of disrespect.
For example, how many times have you heard creationists just dismiss TOE by saying, "After all, it's just a theory...", as if that's all you need to justify the dismissal of the life's work of hundreds (thousands?) of very bright and very hard-working scientists. That's not skepticism; that's disrespect.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | For example, how many times have you heard creationists just dismiss TOE by saying, "After all, it's just a theory...", as if that's all you need to justify the dismissal of the life's work of hundreds (thousands?) of very bright and very hard-working scientists. That's not skepticism; that's disrespect. |
I find it equally discourteous for scientists to disrespect and demean the faith of Christians... as it is just a faith after all… forget the fact that there are those who have dedicated their lives to it… Funny how you didn’t bother to consider this P.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
I find it equally discourteous for scientists to disrespect and demean the faith of Christians... as it is just a faith after all… forget the fact that there are those who have dedicated their lives to it… Funny how you didn’t bother to consider this P. |
Faith is fine. I try my hardest to respect people's SPIRITUAL beliefs. But when spiritual beliefs cross over into science, then things are different. The Bible is a spiritual guide, and not a science textbook. Creationists think it is a science textbook to be interpreted literally. It isn't.
Besides, I don't think that there is much disrespect directed at Christians from scientists. The vast majority of scientists just mind their own business and don't get involved in these arguments. And what little animosity there is from scientists is directed at creationism as a political movement, and not at the Bible.
Note that this is not the case for creationists; they are hell-bent against Darwin's evil theory. Find me a single creationist who has respect for evolution.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Besides, I don't think that there is much disrespect directed at Christians from scientists. The vast majority of scientists just mind their own business and don't get involved in these arguments. And what little animosity there is from scientists is directed at creationism as a political movement, and not at the Bible. |
I agree. In fact, there are many instances of scientists who are Christians (including an old friend of mine). It's perfectly fine for people to believe in God at the same time as they're trying to figure out how the world works. They can still only test the testable, natural world, but that doesn't somehow negate their belief in God.
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Faith is fine. I try my hardest to respect people's SPIRITUAL beliefs. But when spiritual beliefs cross over into science, then things are different. The Bible is a spiritual guide, and not a science textbook. Creationists think it is a science textbook to be interpreted literally. It isn't. |
And the belief that the universe came from nothing is not a belief? Life came from non-life is not a belief? Both sides have inhernt beliefs... one just happens to enjoy some sort of aire of legitimacy over the other right now. Disrespect is still disrespect for what ever reaso nyou want to use to justify it.
| Quote: | | Besides, I don't think that there is much disrespect directed at Christians from scientists. |
Obviously you are not including Dicky Dawkins in your list of scientists then... 
| Quote: | | Note that this is not the case for creationists; they are hell-bent against Darwin's evil theory. Find me a single creationist who has respect for evolution. |
Just one? OK - right HERE.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
And the belief that the universe came from nothing is not a belief? Life came from non-life is not a belief? Both sides have inhernt beliefs... one just happens to enjoy some sort of aire of legitimacy over the other right now.
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And rightfully so! The scientific theories are based on scientific evidence and reationism is not! That is really important!
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Obviously you are not including Dicky Dawkins in your list of scientists then...
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No, I would agree that he doesn't respect religion. But note that when he attacks religion, he does so mostly from the pulpit of an atheist, and not as a scientist.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | Note that this is not the case for creationists; they are hell-bent against Darwin's evil theory. Find me a single creationist who has respect for evolution. |
Just one? OK - right HERE. |
Sorry, can you spell it out for me? I don't know where on the page you're looking!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | Note that this is not the case for creationists; they are hell-bent against Darwin's evil theory. Find me a single creationist who has respect for evolution. |
Just one? OK - right HERE. |
Sorry, can you spell it out for me? I don't know where on the page you're looking! |
Google Hugh Ross... and you'll have your answer. He is a prominent OEC... very popular with some Theistic Evolutionist types.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Google Hugh Ross... and you'll have your answer. He is a prominent OEC... very popular with some Theistic Evolutionist types. |
Ok, you win this round. But can you find me someone who believes in special creation who has respect for the scientists supporting TOE?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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