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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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 Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | I count one reference to taxpayer money supporting evolution (as a religion in schools of course) 
Edit: Two references!
Edit 2: There was a third while I edited
: 4!
: 5! |
 Don't know what the big deal is... he wasn't paying any iin the first place... right?
Maybe that is why he didn't pay taxes?  |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: |
Knowledge and intellect are still respected... it is the way it has been abused that has led us to this point. |
Trinity, I like you and you're a good guy, but you have an EXTREME disrespect for academia, learning, and science. |
Yes... no... and no.
| Quote: | | You believe that virtually all of the thousands of atomic physicists, evolutionary biologists, geneticists, geologists, astronomers, cosmologists, zoologists, and many other gists are totally full of b.s. and that many of the core theories they believe in are all totally wrong... |
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, and... um... 'other gists'... no.
Core theories being wrong... not really. Most of the same evidence they have derived their conclusions from creationists get their different conclusions from.
| Quote: | | Academia and intellectuals are definitely not respected by creationists. Heck, they're not even respected by the average members of society. |
The main problem I have with 'Academia' is that 3 out of 4 (I'll have to find the exact figures0 born again Christians that attend a secular university, at the end of the 4 years, is no longer a Christian.
I can understand a few of them falling away from the faith. College is tough time for kids to follow Christian values... even at Christian colleges... but we aren't talking about a few... the very folks we are told to leave the teaching about God in the Church... will vilify Him at our Universities... state funded universities... without challenge. This complete, unchallenged, anti-God bias permeates every public university in the country. Universities that were built to teach Christian values in the first place. Now, the majority of them don't have departments of Theology... they have departments of religion.. or religious studies. God has been pushed out of these schools, vilified and made essentially irrelevant to any who profess a faith, and these atmospheres have destroyed the faiths of thousands of young Christians.
So, you asserted I have a disrespect for Academia... yea... absolutely. Academia disrespects the very core values and beliefs it was built upon, vilifies the God I worship... love more than life, and is instrumental in the destruction of faith of countless thousands of young Christians every year. I have nothing but contempt for them P.
I can provide you with a few personal examples myself... and those that I know. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5050
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Amen! Trinity, thank you for this post!!  |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | | Amen! Trinity, thank you for this post!! |
Thanks Nobby... this subject just gets my gander up.
I respect P and the perspectives he brings here. He is considerate, respectful, and often brings points up that often are not even considered... FFT does the same thing... they listen... consider... and at least extend respect to others PoV.
This does not occur in college today. Case in point... I'm in a graduate level education program at a local university. We were discussing a concept the other day called 'constructivism'. It is a post modern philosophy that discusses the need to allow students to employ their own understanding... blah blah blah.... but a key element of the philosophy, as it was being taught... is /was that all understanding is relative.
ALL understanding is relative. ALL understanding. ALL.
All implies an objective statement. Meaning, all understanding can not be subjective... as this understanding of understanding is objective. Therefore, it is not subjective, nullifying the statement.
The discussion didn't last too long... and the Prof is extremely nice... so I didn't push her too terribly hard on it... but she admitted the philosophy was incorrect... but... she is stuck in the curriculum and can not change it. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5907
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | The main problem I have with 'Academia' is that 3 out of 4 (I'll have to find the exact figures) born again Christians that attend a secular university, at the end of the 4 years, is no longer a Christian. |
Awesome. Looks like those required elementary logic courses are doing their job
I'm not sure I trust the statistic, though (Christianity seems remarkably resilient in the face of rationality in my experience). I'd love to see some hard numbers if you can find them. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6796
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Nobby wrote: | | Amen! Trinity, thank you for this post!! |
Thanks Nobby... this subject just gets my gander up.
I respect P and the perspectives he brings here. He is considerate, respectful, and often brings points up that often are not even considered... FFT does the same thing... they listen... consider... and at least extend respect to others PoV.
This does not occur in college today. Case in point... I'm in a graduate level education program at a local university. We were discussing a concept the other day called 'constructivism'. It is a post modern philosophy that discusses the need to allow students to employ their own understanding... blah blah blah.... but a key element of the philosophy, as it was being taught... is /was that all understanding is relative.
ALL understanding is relative. ALL understanding. ALL.
All implies an objective statement. Meaning, all understanding can not be subjective... as this understanding of understanding is objective. Therefore, it is not subjective, nullifying the statement.
The discussion didn't last too long... and the Prof is extremely nice... so I didn't push her too terribly hard on it... but she admitted the philosophy was incorrect... but... she is stuck in the curriculum and can not change it. |
You could have stopped after saying that it is a postmodernist philosophy... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6796
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | You believe that virtually all of the thousands of atomic physicists, evolutionary biologists, geneticists, geologists, astronomers, cosmologists, zoologists, and many other gists are totally full of b.s. and that many of the core theories they believe in are all totally wrong... |
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, and... um... 'other gists'... no.
Core theories being wrong... not really. Most of the same evidence they have derived their conclusions from creationists get their different conclusions from.
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Trinity, you believe that atomic dating doesn't work, which necessarily implies that core fundamental concepts in atomic theory are wrong. You believe that the universe is only 6000 years old, which means that all of astronomy and cosmology are wrong, not to mention that plate tectonics and continental drift are all wrong. You believe that evolution is a fantasy, which means that all of the biologists, zoologists, biochemists, geneticists, and organic chemists are full of b.s.
You are the very DEFINITION of disrespecting science, research, and academia! You think that the vast majority of the mainstream scientific establishment is completely out to lunch and that you know better than all of them!
I hesitate to say that you DESPISE science, but you certainly have a very healthy disrespect for it. |
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pastor2022
Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 693
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Gee, and I all I wanted to do was to say welcome to lovemore!
Pastor2022 |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6342
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Trinity, you believe that atomic dating doesn't work, which necessarily implies that core fundamental concepts in atomic theory are wrong. |
Not true. I believe there are too many assumptions involved in radiometric dating and there are results that are simply ignored that don't fit the old earth paradigm... it has nothing to do with me doubting atomic theory...
| Quote: | | You believe that the universe is only 6000 years old, which means that all of astronomy and cosmology are wrong, not to mention that plate tectonics and continental drift are all wrong. |
Yes... no... no...no... and kinda a little bit.
| Quote: | | You believe that evolution is a fantasy, |
Goo to you... yes... that is a fantasy.
| Quote: | | which means that all of the biologists, zoologists, biochemists, geneticists, and organic chemists are full of b.s. |
No... no... no... no... no... and only half full of it.
| Quote: | | You are the very DEFINITION of disrespecting science, research, and academia! |
no... no... and yes... I would be the poster child for that contempt...
| Quote: | | You think that the vast majority of the mainstream scientific establishment is completely out to lunch and that you know better than all of them! |
No.. not true...
| Quote: | | I hesitate to say that you DESPISE science, but you certainly have a very healthy disrespect for it. |
The conclusions drawn from it... the manner in which it is used to divert folks from God... and the dogmatic assertions taught without challenge, thus destroying the ideal of free inquiry in our country... that part of it... yepper. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6796
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity, the vast majority of astronomers say that there are stars which are 10 billion light-years away from us, and that their light has reached us. Are they right or are they wrong? |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5050
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm really thankful for our scientist they are now finding out things now that God knew when He put it all to gether! |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | I'm not sure I trust the statistic, though (Christianity seems remarkably resilient in the face of rationality in my experience). I'd love to see some hard numbers if you can find them. |
It was in a pamphlet I had for my Sunday School Teachers. I looked the source up HERE but I didn't see the poll cited for their numbers. The links were dead |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Trinity, the vast majority of astronomers say that there are stars which are 10 billion light-years away from us, and that their light has reached us. Are they right or are they wrong? |
I'm not sure. We have talked about the science behind measuring these distances and how truly subjective it is. We have also talked about how if God, "Stretched out the heavens" as described by the Psalmist... this wouldn't be a problem anyhow..
So.. I don't know, and it really isn't important in a Biblical (literal Biblical) framework. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | | I'm really thankful for our scientist they are now finding out things now that God knew when He put it all to gether! |
And I object to them stating that they can explain it all without His existence or need to thank Him for it. |
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