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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7667
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | P123 wrote: | I'm not seeing it. You're going to have to spell it out for me.
It is my understanding that the Golden Rule says 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.' |
Now apply that to what Trinity said:
| Quote: | you can do one of two things:
1. Tell the person you are deeply offended, wish that they would extend the same respect for your space as you do theirs, and chastise them for being weak both physically and mentally. Then, allow their offense to resonate so deeply that anyone else who happens to engage in the same behavior is now automatically placed in the same category and deserving of the same chastisement and consideration.
2. Understand the person who is smoking enjoys it... and walk away. |
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I still don't get it... Are you saying that according to the Golden Rule, I should let the person enjoy his smoke because I would expect him to let me enjoy my smoke as well?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | I still don't get it... Are you saying that according to the Golden Rule, I should let the person enjoy his smoke because I would expect him to let me enjoy my smoke as well? |
Not exactly...
When someone engages in a behavior so minimally intrusive as smoking... I would expect, if you were truly exercising the golden rule... not smear the individual with DDT...  but tell them that smoking is harmful to their health and that they really shouldn't engage in that behavior.... now... that is if your truly wanted to treat them as you would want ot be treated... afterall, you want people to care about you, no?
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Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7667
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Not exactly...
When someone engages in a behavior so minimally intrusive as smoking... I would expect, if you were truly exercising the golden rule... not smear the individual with DDT... but tell them that smoking is harmful to their health and that they really shouldn't engage in that behavior.... now... that is if your truly wanted to treat them as you would want ot be treated... afterall, you want people to care about you, no? |
Sure, but the Golden Rule cuts both ways, and I argue that my scenario is also a valid one.
Let's say there's a dude who DOESN'T believe in the Golden Rule, but he know that you DO. You smoke near him, and since he knows that you believe in the Golden rule, he correctly concludes that you wouldn't mind being splashed with some DDT. So he splashes you with DDT, believing that you're not going to get mad at him, but in this scenario you almost certainly WOULD get angry, showing that you either don't really believe in the Golden Rule or that you haven't really applied it properly to smoking...
You don't think I have a point here?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Sure, but the Golden Rule cuts both ways, and I argue that my scenario is also a valid one.
Let's say there's a dude who DOESN'T believe in the Golden Rule, but he know that you DO. You smoke near him, and since he knows that you believe in the Golden rule, he correctly concludes that you wouldn't mind being splashed with some DDT. So he splashes you with DDT, believing that you're not going to get mad at him, but in this scenario you almost certainly WOULD get angry, showing that you either don't really believe in the Golden Rule or that you haven't really applied it properly to smoking...
You don't think I have a point here? |
The big difference here P would be that one would most likely result in the persons involved beating each other about the head and shoulders with blunt metalic objects.
The other... prolly nothing more than some ruffled feathers.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7667
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
The big difference here P would be that one would most likely result in the persons involved beating each other about the head and shoulders with blunt metalic objects.
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I think that's my point...
You smoke near someone. He sprays you with DDT. You get mad at him. You guys fight. And the entire episode proves that you don't really believe in the Golden rule, because if you did, you'd have looked at the DDT that the guy sprayed on you and said to yourself, "According to the Golden Rule, I guess I was asking for that."
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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P123...
The 'golden rule' is not about how others treat you but how you treat others. It is entirely internal.
For the case of the guy smoking near you, the question is not: "Is HE following the golden rule and if not what should I do?"
But it is actually:
"How should I behave in accordance to the 'golden rule' regardless of how he is behaving?"
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5158
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | The 'golden rule' is not about how others treat you but how you treat others. |
Pardner, you hit the nail on the head! 
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just wondering when I'm allowed to use those blunt metallic objects. 
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| don't be silly tri....you'll hurt yourself with one of those...things... |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7667
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | P123...
The 'golden rule' is not about how others treat you but how you treat others. It is entirely internal.
For the case of the guy smoking near you, the question is not: "Is HE following the golden rule and if not what should I do?"
But it is actually:
"How should I behave in accordance to the 'golden rule' regardless of how he is behaving?" |
I completely agree, but I don't think this negates my point.
If there is a guy who doesn't believe in the Golden Rule, and he sprays carcinogens onto a smoker (smoking near him) who he knows to be a believer in the Golden Rule, and the believer then attacks him, that definitively proves that the believer doesn't really believe in the Golden Rule.
Or put another way: anyone who believes in the Golden Rule should not smoke near others.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | anyone who believes in the Golden Rule should not smoke near others. |
Once again, the 'golden rule' is entirely internal, you seem to be bent on applying it externally.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7667
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | anyone who believes in the Golden Rule should not smoke near others. |
Once again, the 'golden rule' is entirely internal, you seem to be bent on applying it externally. |
This is a pretty weak rebuttal. I am pointing out that anyone who believes in the Golden Rule should not smoke near others.
Your rebuttal to this seems to be that I shouldn't go shoving the Golden Rule down other people's throats, but rather should be applying it to myself and only to myself.
Exactly where in the Bible does it say that I can't point out when others are violating the Golden Rule?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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What is the 'golden rule'?
Do unto other as you would have others do unto you.
Where in anything concerning this adage does it indicate:
Make sure others do unto others as they would have others do unto them.
When you apply an admonition to the self to other people you practice religion.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7667
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: |
What is the 'golden rule'?
Do unto other as you would have others do unto you.
Where in anything concerning this adage does it indicate:
Make sure others do unto others as they would have others do unto them.
When you apply an admonition to the self to other people you practice religion. |
You are mistakenly implying that I am trying to get others to obey the Golden Rule. I am not. I am simply pointing out a case in which someone clearly isn't following the Golden Rule.
I'm not saying, "You should obey the Golden Rule and not smoke near others." I'm saying, "IF you believe in the Golden Rule, then smoking near others is incompatible with your beliefs."
Where in the Bible does it say that I cannot analyze someone's behavior in order to try to determine whether or not it is compatible with the Golden Rule?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6908
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: |
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You are not getting it P123... I simply telling you that the 'golden rule' is purely and only a guide for your behavior. As it is a guide for ME to consider and adapt MY behavior. Applying it externally is not its intent, has never been its intent, will never be its intent. Because once one externalizes it they move beyond the bounds of the intent of the golden rule and move into the realm of legislation, control, judgement, and condemnation. In other words: Self-righteousness.
| Quote: | | Where in the Bible does it say that I cannot analyze someone's behavior in order to try to determine whether or not it is compatible with the Golden Rule? |
Thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged
Luk 6:41 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye but do not notice or consider the beam [of timber] that is in your own eye?
I'm simply pointing out the spiritual and theological difference between religion and the intent of scripture. Religion is mostly concerned with control of behavior of others and scripture (e.g. Christianity) is concerned with one's personal relationship with the Almighty and control of one's own behavior.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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