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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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 Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: It was never about oil right? Right? Right? |
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http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2132569.ece
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2132574.ece
From the article.. | Quote: | Iraq's massive oil reserves, the third-largest in the world, are about to be thrown open for large-scale exploitation by Western oil companies under a controversial law which is expected to come before the Iraqi parliament within days.
The US government has been involved in drawing up the law, a draft of which has been seen by The Independent on Sunday. It would give big oil companies such as BP, Shell and Exxon 30-year contracts to extract Iraqi crude and allow the first large-scale operation of foreign oil interests in the country since the industry was nationalised in 1972.
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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 Yup I just cant imagine why he would want to up the amount of troops to secure that oil er...oops..i mean bring freeman demockercy to Iraq... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: | | Yup I just cant imagine why he would want to up the amount of troops to secure that oil er...oops..i mean bring freeman demockercy to Iraq... |
Wondering... um... I guess I'm pondering  .... where the citations referencing the French... ahhhh.... German.... and um.... errrmmmm... Russian contract citations are... You know ISI.... the ones that were made prior to the the invasion. The ones predicated on facts.
But, your post is missing those and is soooooo quick to pounce on some conspiracy theory... with zero evidence I might add... and yet... there you are... throwing this out there... once again.
Which raises the issue of... um.... creditability.  Or in this case, lack there of. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2434
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: OK trinity.... |
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The oil issue is one of immense concern here in the US as I'm sure you know. Iraqi oil fills about 20% of the world oil needs and if it is cut off completely it means the US will suffer immensely (as if the rest of the world isn't already)
But just listen to some of the most obvious facts. Former Texas oil executive Bush and his vice president Cheney who also is an ex oil company executive and former CEO of Haliburton an oil support company send troops into an oil rich country to bring "democracy." Haliburton is given non-compete bids for much of the contract work there which amounts to billions of dollars. It certainly smells like an oil issue and acts like an oil issue.
Bush and Cheney have both denied any connection with the oil issue but their denials fall on deaf ears given their connections with oil in their past and their failure in military field. While I don't like to enter into Conspiracy theory territory how often does oil have to enter the story line before it makes the whole story? |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: Re: OK trinity.... |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | But just listen to some of the most obvious facts. Former Texas oil executive Bush and his vice president Cheney who also is an ex oil company executive and former CEO of Haliburton an oil support company send troops into an oil rich country to bring "democracy." |
And I suppose Bill Clinton gave all kinds of preferential treatment to trail lawyers prior to him coming to office because he was a lawyer before? It is always amazing how charges like this are never followed by ANY / ZERO / ZIPPO facts or evidence. Thanks for your opinion. However, when enunciating it, please ensure that it is defined as your opinion and not some conspiracy wrapped up to look like facts.
| Quote: | | Haliburton is given non-compete bids for much of the contract work there which amounts to billions of dollars. It certainly smells like an oil issue and acts like an oil issue. |
Couple things here... which are factual and you can look them up.... which is really the point as yours is nothing more than another one of those conspiracy thingy-ma-jobs
Haliburton was getting more no bid contracts and more preferential treatment under the Clinton Administration than they are under the Bush one. That is a fact and you can look it up.
Second, Haliburton gets these no bid contracts simply because there are no other companies out there either capable or willing to perform the services they do. That is a fact... do us all a favor and look it up.
Third - Kellog, Brown, and Root (KBR), which the subsidiary your are referring to was doing so well that Haliburton decided to try to sell it recently because it wasn't making enough. Again, lets not let the facts form your opinion here. But all of this can be found at just about any website... other than Moveon.org.
Happy reading.
| Quote: | | Bush and Cheney have both denied any connection with the oil issue but their denials fall on deaf ears given their connections with oil in their past and their failure in military field. |
Hmmmm..... Reagan was an actor... therefore Hollywood was given preferential treatment.
Clinton was a lawyer... therefore... ahh.. never mind. I can't even type this trash with a straight face... if it weren't for the fact that you actually buy into this garbage... it would actually be funny.
| Quote: | | While I don't like to enter into Conspiracy theory territory how often does oil have to enter the story line before it makes the whole story? |
Well, uh... erm... for someone who doesn't like to "enter into conspiracy theories" you sure do a good job of it... all the while offering us a good dose of humor while watching. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2434
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Remember the old adage "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck"
See the newer documentary "Why We Fight", in it there is the real reason why we are in Iraq. Maybe it is oil, maybe we just cant help ourselves when it comes to going to war, we love it so much. There are tons of money to be made from fighting wars and from the oil we so desperately need. The common theme being money to be made. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | Remember the old adage "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck" |
Yeah yeah yeah... and your point is what? Since GW use to be an oil man, he therefore wants to steal and plunder the world's oil supplies from Iraq? Again... do you have any shred of evidence supporting this assumption.
| Quote: | | See the newer documentary "Why We Fight", |
To be ranked right up there with that scathing award winning documentary Fahrenheit 9/11... paaaalease tell me you are able to think for yourself at least part of the time dim. |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | dim12trav wrote: | | Remember the old adage "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck" |
To be ranked right up there with that scathing award winning documentary Fahrenheit 9/11... paaaalease tell me you are able to think for yourself at least part of the time dim. |
(Bold added to emphasize)
Yeahhhhhand youuuu think for yourself...yah right...what did Fox news tell you to say today Trinity...hmmm?
Chances are when 81 % of the country says they dont support the war due to the lies and deception...well chances are you need to get a new scope on it trinity... Just a thought...but do as you wish...your choice
You are so predictable...if you dont like the article  ...well that source is no good ..  .acording to you...but if its extreme right wing...well that must be some true stuff.. .Oh well
And your next tactic will be to call me a hypocrite or sumpin... Whatever...
Its always been about oil Trinity...wake up and smell the Java...and stop bein brainwashed...
Disclaimer: The smileys used are in no way intended to make Trinity mad... <<<<<<like that one... |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | Remember the old adage "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck"
See the newer documentary "Why We Fight", in it there is the real reason why we are in Iraq. Maybe it is oil, maybe we just cant help ourselves when it comes to going to war, we love it so much. There are tons of money to be made from fighting wars and from the oil we so desperately need. The common theme being money to be made. |
Amen Brother Amen...Drive on and never give up the fight to say the truth...   |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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I need to pay closer attention to this forum... there are so many gems that I miss.
| IronSharpensIron wrote: | | Yeahhhhhand youuuu think for yourself...yah right...what did Fox news tell you to say today Trinity...hmmm? |
Today... it dealt with the highly subjective stance against selling dope to 3rd graders. We must never forget that we live in a capitalistic society, and if 3rd grades want to buy some crack... dog-gone-it, supply and demand must prevail. 
| Quote: | | Chances are when 81 % of the country says they dont support the war due to the lies and deception...well chances are you need to get a new scope on it trinity... Just a thought...but do as you wish...your choice |
Cite please... I'd like to see the quesition and how it was worded.
| Quote: | | You are so predictable...if you dont like the article ...well that source is no good .. .acording to you...but if its extreme right wing...well that must be some true stuff.. .Oh well |
Hmmmm.... normally though, when we make assertions that others disagree with, we normally source studies, facts, or documnets. Can you source your assertion? That is the question. If not ... it is your opinion. If so, then there is nothing wrong with examining the source or the sources motivation.
Example:
If the source for your poll is Moveon.org, then all I would do is consider the source. If were another source, then I'd take a look at that sources previous posiitons on similar issues. This is called convergence of the evidence. Having multiple sources, independent sources, is usually a good thing.
| Quote: | | And your next tactic will be to call me a hypocrite or sumpin... Whatever... |
I don't think you are a hypocrite, un-patriotic, or anytihng like that. I think you are just dead wrong... you have indicated that you beleive the war in Iraq is over oil. All I am doing is asking you to support your position. This isn't the 6PM evening news where assertions given by mainstream media talking heads gets a pass. I am asking to demonstrate the veracity of your argument.
| Quote: | | Its always been about oil Trinity...wake up and smell the Java...and stop bein brainwashed... |
Again.. what leads you to this supposition? Do you have any evidence supporting your position what-so-ever?
| Quote: | | Disclaimer: The smileys used are in no way intended to make Trinity mad... <<<<<<like that one... |
Okay... you got me to laugh... |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| dim wrote: | | maybe we just cant help ourselves when it comes to going to war |
that reminds me....
when i was in italy once years ago....i meet this old man....he was an american....anyway...we started to talk....during the conversation he said...
if a leader gives americans a war, they will love him for it...
but it sems that is the case only if the war is won... |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2434
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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The myth of a peaceful American culture is just that a myth. I guess the idea that we go to war "to stop wars" is such a naive suggestion. It surely isn't to bring democracy to the world but how many wars have we fought in just this last century?
www.historyguy.com/american_military_history.html
Check it out there has not been twenty years of peace since the end of WWII in 1921, and many times there has been multiple conflicts we are engaged in simultaneously.
Maybe "we just cant help ourselves" is likely true. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: | | It surely isn't to bring democracy to the world... |
Really?
Germany? France? Italy? Belgium? WWII
Korea? At least South Korea anyway... I'm sure there are alot of folks there that would disagree with you.
How about the Cold War? Poland? The Soviet Block countries... what happened there was an accident?
Grenada? Sure… it only took an afternoon… but we gotter done…
Panama? I suppose that wasn't much either... but it was a 'war'/conflict... there is a democracy now.
Iraq? Did they not just hold a few elections? Did you miss those too?
History tells me quite a different story dim… |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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There are 2 articles right there in the begining of this thread Trinity..i could post a thousand articles that talk of the problem etc...mebbe later..but you will only dismiss them same as the 1st two..so really what would be the point.?..i see references to ...stupidity?...in the other thread by a mod refering to posts here...that dont give out too many warm fuzzies to posting...naw...ill send ya some links PM or sumpin...but im not into all that arguin etc...
Thanks for the challenge...but i really dont have time to be on the net all day arguin every little point about what is happenin...glad to see you have a sense of humor...is this site so serious that no friendliness is given out?
Sometimes you can read posts and get a picture in your mind of the poster.....of course its all perception.....and ...well never mind....
Your friend in Christ...later |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| OH BTW...i have never been to moveon.org...it has never interested me... |
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