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theseldomscene
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| me neither... |
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RevJP
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Posts: 6886
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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I grasp it, I really do. I just don't see how the 'soul' becomes a part of it.
I see a connection between thought and consiousness and 'soul' being considered here. I simply don't consider that connection as valid.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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sofyst
Tiger
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 830
Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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So you would say that it was a soulless Jeremiah in the womb?
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simul justus et peccator
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RevJP
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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I would.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| could it be there is only one soul...for all men?.... |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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No. If that were the case then all men would either have eternal life or eternal death.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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theseldomscene
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Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| that is a good point jp...i remember when JESUS said what good is it if a man gains the whole world yet loses his soul... |
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sofyst
Tiger
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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But Jp, even if it is a 'soulless' Jeremiah within the womb, it is Jeremiah nonetheless. It is still a person...
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simul justus et peccator
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dramatic_n_comedic_lynn
Big Goldfish
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 73
Location: Sweden (though I'm from Maryland)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| sofyst wrote: | | The question is whether it is a person or not. If not a person, then abort away. If a person, let it be born. Do you agree? |
Before I answer this, let me answer this question first:
| Quote: | | One moment though, do you think abortion is permissable or wrong? |
To answer your question on a broad scale, I am pro-choice. I support the freedom of reproductive choice for men and woman. This means I don't only support abortion for other women to choose, but I also support the choice to carry to term to either raise a child or give it up for adoption. I support the choice to use contraception of any kind as well as the choice to remain abstinant. I support men to personally choose if they want to be circumcized or not rather than parents making the choice for them when they are infants. I support men opting out of parenthood as I do with women (abortion) by signing over their rights in a certain time frame.
With all of that said.....I support the choice to abort for other women, even though I personally don't agree with it. I rather see the need for it to decrease dramatically than it being banned flat out or/and illegalized....which is the only thing where both sides agree upon. It's just they disagree about how it should be done.
I support and agree with abortion 100% when the woman's life is in danger at any point in pregnancy unless there is a way to deliver in the third trimester. I support and agree with it 100% in rape/incest cases. I support abortion electively till 24 weeks, or when viability occurs.
As for me personally...I'm personally against abortion for myself unless my life is in danger. I don't want to abort a life that I created in my womb. I'm a creator in a lot of ways. I create dance routines, characters, storylines, and ways to portray a role. IMPO, creating a life within me is the ultimate creation. Hence, why I won't abort my own pregnancy less my life is in danger to preserve my life.
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dramatic_n_comedic_lynn
Big Goldfish
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 73
Location: Sweden (though I'm from Maryland)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, now that I answered that one question in the previous post...I can answer this one now. (BTW, sorry if I answered this in seperate posts. Thought it would look organized better)
| sofyst wrote: | | The question is whether it is a person or not. If not a person, then abort away. If a person, let it be born. Do you agree? |
Well, legally, personhood isn't really granted until birth. Most pro-choicers feel that way. However, personally, I wouldn't agree with abortion and support it once viablity is achieved which is between 22-24 weeks.
Once a fetus reaches viability, it has a stronger chance of surviving outside the womb (along with medical technology of course). So, because of this stand point, I do see fetuses having a chance at personhood in this stage.
I wouldn't abort because it wasn't a person or seen as one. I would abort to save my life, even if I did see it as person because I want to preserve my life so I can have children in the future or adopt. Most pro-choicers aren't going to abort either just because it isn't a person. If they did, it didn't matter if it was a person or not. They just didn't want to carry to term for whatever reason.
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theseldomscene
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Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| lynn wrote: | | I support men to personally choose if they want to be circumcized or not rather than parents making the choice for them when they are infants. |
while i appreciate your view...trust me...most(i'd say 95%) of us(men) want and are glad mommy and daddy had it done when we were infants...just trust me here ok....i think it would be cruel for them not to...then the kid grows up and wants or need it...it is painful...
having it done has no sexual effect, and prevents problems in a man(i know guys who weren't that would at times get a nasty little...thing...there so they told me).., as well as their female sexual partners...i think it is the responsible thing for a parent to do...
| Quote: | | I support men opting out of parenthood as I do with women (abortion) by signing over their rights in a certain time frame. |
are you saying that if the women wants to keep the baby...and the man doesn't...he should be aable to sign his rights and responsiblities away and not have to suport the child he didn't want?... |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6065
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | while i appreciate your view...trust me...most(i'd say 95%) of us(men) want and are glad mommy and daddy had it done when we were infants... |
Not those of us who know anything about it 
| theseldomscene wrote: | | just trust me here ok....i think it would be cruel for them not to...then the kid grows up and wants or need it...it is painful... |
So it's okay to mutilate babies because they won't remember it?
| theseldomscene wrote: | | having it done has no sexual effect |
Untrue. Sensitivity is lost (there are a lot of nerves in that foreskin). Sex itself is better: the foreskin makes the process more enjoyable for both partners. I'd go into detail but it's not really family-safe 
| theseldomscene wrote: | | and prevents problems in a man |
Nothing that can't be prevented by good hygiene.
| theseldomscene wrote: | | as well as their female sexual partners... |
Really?
| theseldomscene wrote: | | i think it is the responsible thing for a parent to do... |
It's genital mutilation.
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When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
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theseldomscene
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Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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no it is not...quite crying and go have it done...
oh yes..about the really...i read a book a couple of books few years ago...different cultures whose men were not circumsized ....and they found those cultures had a much higher level of a certain type of cancer in women...but yes...hygeine could have stopped that also they said...but so would circumsion  ...plus hygiene...is a good thing...
mutilate it!!!......it is for the best...
| Quote: | | are you saying it's okay to mutilate babies because they won't remember it? |
yeah!!!...it is a lot better than needing it later in life and having to remember it...
ps...please go into detail...there is a long standing debate going on else where about whether it is better sex with it or without it...it was done to me and i could not imagine sex feeling much better and at the same time being able to stay conscious....  ... |
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dramatic_n_comedic_lynn
Big Goldfish
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 73
Location: Sweden (though I'm from Maryland)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | while i appreciate your view...trust me...most(i'd say 95%) of us(men) want and are glad mommy and daddy had it done when we were infants...just trust me here ok....i think it would be cruel for them not to...then the kid grows up and wants or need it...it is painful... |
And it's not painful to the baby either?
You said what happens if a kid grows up and wants/needs it? What happen if they grow up and resented it? A guy should have full responsiblity what happens to his dick. If he wants it circumsized or not, it should be his choice. Not his parents
And painful for him? Hell, women are willing to go through buttloads of pain to have a child. If they are willing to do that, I think a guy can survive a circumcision if he *truely* wanted one.
| Quote: | | having it done has no sexual effect, and prevents problems in a man(i know guys who weren't that would at times get a nasty little...thing...there so they told me).., |
Yes, it does. Sensitivity is cut down and they are loosing a part of themselves that acts as a sheath to their sensitve gland.
Prevents problems? Such as what?
| Quote: | | as well as their female sexual partners... |
Like what in females? I'm with a man that's uncut and there isn't any problem.
| Quote: | | i think it is the responsible thing for a parent to do... |
well, I think most of the parents in Europe would disagree as you don't find many European men that are cut.
| Quote: | | are you saying that if the women wants to keep the baby...and the man doesn't...he should be able to sign his rights and responsiblities away and not have to suport the child he didn't want?... |
If a woman can opt out of parenthood by abortion or giving up a child for adoption, why can't a man? If he honestly doesn't want to pay child support for a child he didn't want, then he should have to the right to sign over parental support in a certain matter of time.
A man won't be happy if he had a woman that aborted a pregnancy that he wanted to keep. A man won't be happy if a woman got pregnant and decided to carry to term when he wanted her to abort.
However, I think the best thing to do is that both the man and woman communicate what would happen if she would get pregnant before anything happens.
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="dramatic_n_comedic_lynn"][ | Quote: | | And it's not painful to the baby either? |
| Quote: | | You said what happens if a kid grows up and wants/needs it? What happen if they grow up and resented it? |
like who?...i have never meet a circumsized man who resent his parents for it...but i have meet some that weren't who did...
| Quote: | | A guy should have full responsiblity what happens to his dick. If he wants it circumsized or not, it should be his choice. Not his parents |
no ma'am...a parent should have the responsiblity over their baby and should make that choice for them!!...
| Quote: | | And painful for him? Hell, women are willing to go through buttloads of pain to have a child. If they are willing to do that, I think a guy can survive a circumcision if he *truely* wanted one. |
one has nothing to do with the other nor does it make your point more valid because women chose to have babies...that is not even a sound arguement... 
[ | Quote: | | Yes, it does. Sensitivity is cut down and they are loosing a part of themselves that acts as a sheath to their sensitve gland. |
this very staemnet is self defeating...reread it...maybe it will hit you if you can stop your trashy language long enough to read it...
| Quote: | | Prevents problems? Such as what? |
read a book and learn...so you don't look as uninformed as you just did...
| Quote: | | well, I think most of the parents in Europe would disagree as you don't find many European men that are cut. |
yes...and when you do your research...you'll see what i have said is true...so it does't matter if they disagree or not...facts are facts...again...you are speaking out of ignorance...READ!!!
| Quote: | | If a woman can opt out of parenthood by abortion or giving up a child for adoption, why can't a man? If he honestly doesn't want to pay child support for a child he didn't want, then he should have to the right to sign over parental support in a certain matter of time. |
if he doesn't want to...he should keep his pants zipped...i think even if the kid is put up for adoption he should have to pay child support...all you are babbloing is a man can produce all the kids he wants and not have to take responsiblity for them...that is c.rap...he should have to...8under any circumstances if it is his, whether he wants ot or not....
| Quote: | | A man won't be happy if he had a woman that aborted a pregnancy that he wanted to keep. A man won't be happy if a woman got pregnant and decided to carry to term when he wanted her to abort. |
so?...he was happy when he was on top of her making that life...happy or not it is his ...and he should pay for it...period...and there should be no choice involved...
and if he doesn't he should go to jail...be ofrced to work from jail...and the money used to support the baby he helped to make.... |
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