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TheWord
Big Hamster
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 96
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 Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: misunderstood scripture..... |
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2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
Now let us see what the apostle Peter meant by saying that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. To do so, we must open our Bible and read that verse in its context and employ the familiar rules of language to discover its meaning. In other words, we must interpret the Bible for ourselves! The apostle Peter writes:
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:20-21).
The verb "is" in verse 20 is the translation of the word 'ginomai' which according to Strong's Lexicon means, "to cause to be, to become, come into being." Hence the sense of this verse is this: "no prophecy of Scripture 'came into being' by any private interpretation." The apostle Peter is here speaking about the process by which the Scriptures came into being, namely, their origin, and not about the understanding of Scripture already given.
Peter says that no scripture came into being by 'private interpretation' - that is by one's own explanation. Whom does he have in mind? Is it the reader, or the men who penned the Scriptures? Since Peter is speaking about the origin of Scripture, it seems likely that he is talking about the prophets themselves. In other words, Peter is saying that the Scriptures did not originate in the prophets' own understanding. This could be confirmed if we read the following verse since the apostle Peter gives the reason why scripture did not come into being of the prophets' own understanding, "for" he continues, "prophecy never came by the will of man." The prophets did not invent the scriptures. Rather, they were God's instruments to write his Word: "...holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
So, rather than discourage us from reading and understanding the Bible for ourselves, this verse give us full confidence why we should trust the Scriptures. Though written by men, the Scriptures do not have their origin in the human mind but in the mind of God the Holy Spirit. |
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nobody important
Young Wolf
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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TW have a closer look!
| Quote: | When WE told YOU about the power and coming of our lord Jesus Christ, we were not slavishly repeating cleverly invented myths; no WE had seen his majesty with our own eyes.......So
WE have confirmation of the words of the prophets; and YOU will be right to pay attention to it as a lamp for lighting the way through the dark, until the dawn comes and the morning star rises in your minds.
At the same time, WE must recognise that the INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTUAL prohecy is NEVER a matter FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. For no prophecy ever came from human initiative.
When preople spoke for God it was the Holy spirit that moved them. As there were false teachers in the past history of OUR people, so YOU too will have YOUR FALSE TEACHERS, who will insinuate THEIR OWN DISRUPTIVE VIEWS and, by DISOWNING THE LORD (whoever listens to you listens to me, whoever rejects you rejects me also) who bought them freedom, will bring upon themseslves a speedy destruction. Many Will copy their behaviour and THE WAY OF TRUTH will be brought into DISREPUTE ON THEIR ACCOUNT. |
Peter is refering to himself and the apostles while he is talking to you a Christian... he is telling you that they are confirming the prophets were inspired by the holy spirit because they receieved this information from Christ... Then Peter is telling you, "you will be right to pay attention to it as a lamp for lighting the way through the dark, until the dawn comes and the morning star rises in your mind".
In other words....Pay attention Until you get an understanding of Christ... then he goes on to say
At the same time, WE (the Apostles) must recognise that the INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTUAL prohecy is NEVER a matter FOR THE INDIVIDUAL (individual Christian...You)
Then he goes on to talk about false teachers and people teaching their own disruptive views.
Then later He goes on to talk about the End times
This Scripture is clearly a warning against interpreating the scriptures for yourself and teaching falsehoods |
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nobody important
Young Wolf
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| BTW, I am not saying that you or the majority of those christian who do prefer to interpreate scripture away from apostloic guidance resemble the people St Peter refers to in the end of times... the majority of bible only Christians have a good grounding in truth even if they do not know the fullness of truth... but the people I believe St Peter is Refering to are those people who use scripture to advocate homosexuality, pedophillia abortion. But these people have gotton their authority to teach these falsehoods and interperate the bible away from apostolic guidance from the bible only Christians.... it has begun a steady falling away from the truth. |
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TheWord
Big Hamster
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Seems pretty clear to me, maybe the (LITV) will make it clearer for YOU
2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that every prophecy of Scripture did not come into being of its own interpretation;
2Pe 1:21 for prophecy was not at any time borne by the will of man, but being borne along by the Holy Spirit, holy men of God spoke.
You probably don't realize the inconsistency of your argument. You try to persuade me not to interpret the Bible for myself by showing me a Bible verse that supposedly proves your point. But if I cannot interpret the Bible for myself, how can I understand the meaning of the verse you quoted? Moreover you don't even abide by your own rule. For you read the Scriptures and use your mind to understand the meaning of the text.
What you really want to say is this: Read the Bible as much as you like, as long as you don't question any doctrine taught by the Roman Catholic magisterium. And if you find any variation between the teaching of the Bible and the teaching of the Vatican, then surely you must be misunderstanding the Bible. The Roman magisterium refuses to be held accountable and to be examined in the light of God's Word!
The Roman Church has had a long history of withholding the Bible from the common people. One effective way was to give the Bible in Latin, an unknown tongue to the great majority. For centuries it was a sin to possess and read the Bible in one's own native language. The Council of Toulouse (1229) forbade the laity to read the vernacular translations of the Bible. Various Bible translations were included in the Index of Forbidden Books (Index Librorum Prohibitorum), first published in 1559. Pope Pius IV instructed bishops to refuse permission to lay persons to read even Catholic versions of Scripture unless their confessors or parish priests judged that such reading was likely to prove beneficial.
History forced the Roman Church to change tactics. Today many Catholics have their personal copy of the Bible at home and many are reading the Bible for themselves. However, the Word of God is rendered void and ineffective by the presuppositions in the Catholic mind. For example, the Catholic is not bothered by the fact that the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, auricular confession, purgatory and the veneration of statues are absent from the pages of the Bible. They have been convinced from infancy that God's revelation does not come in the Bible alone, but also in Sacred Tradition; and since no-one can check the contents of oral Tradition, they have no way to verify whether a particular doctrine is really based on the Word of God or not. They simply have to trust the magisterium.
Another method that Rome employs is to persuade the people that the Bible is too difficult to understand by oneself. Interpretation is not for the common people but for the wise and intelligent leaders of the Church alone. "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God...has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone...This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome" (Catechism, paragraph 85). With one hand Rome gives the Bible to the people, and with the other hand, Rome takes it away!
The verb "is" in verse 20 is the translation of the word 'ginomai' which according to Strong's Lexicon means, "to cause to be, to become, come into being." Hence the sense of this verse is this: "no prophecy of Scripture 'came into being' by any private interpretation." The apostle Peter is here speaking about the process by which the Scriptures came into being, namely, their origin, and not about the understanding of Scripture already given. |
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TheWord
Big Hamster
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I believe the falling away from the TRUTH has been happening for a much longer time than you. There are a lot of half truths out ther. Only by following Christ and praying for wisdom can one ever go past that. And, I dare say for some of us it can take a lifetime.
PS I was raised Catholic. My aunt was a nun and I love you all. There is no more deception in the Catholic Church than any other. But don't fool yourself, the deception comes from the top down. And it is very hard for the leaders of the Catholic Church to reverse any doctrines taught in the past, but it is slowly happening. I hope you are fortunate enough to hear this from your own priest. It is thin ice. |
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sofyst
Tiger
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 830
Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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OH! this looks like a good discussion. Too bad I am experiencing my ADD moment right now and must retreat to some online game...perhaps I can come back later... 
_________________
simul justus et peccator
the Protestant pub |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 894
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
| Quote: | TheWord:
So, rather than discourage us from reading and understanding the Bible for ourselves, this verse give us full confidence why we should trust the Scriptures. Though written by men, the Scriptures do not have their origin in the human mind but in the mind of God the Holy Spirit. |
I agree, but there are a couple additional verses that need to be considered as well......
1 Corinthians 3:2
I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not yet strong enough [to be ready for it]; but even yet you are not strong enough [to be ready for it],
Corinthians 3:2 indicates that there is preliminary and/or preparatory understanding, which must be grasped, before going on to deeper things.
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding
This, in context with other passages, does not say 'do not apply your own understanding', but rather trust in the providence of the Lord over your own power, or lack of power to understand. Accept God and His word as being truthful, trustworthy, and authoritive, knowing that your own understanding, and/or the understanding of others (organizations even) does not warrent this same sort of trust.
1 Corinthians 13:12
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
1 Corinthians 13:12 here, reveals the imperfection of mans understanding (men who are still in the flesh that is). Our understanding, apparently, is limited in perfection, at least while we are alive here on earth.
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
And this is probably the most profound Scripture in the Bible. It should have a deep impact on trust in ones accepted and/or personally held views.
I just watched a movie the other day.....'Mystic River'.....in which the point is driven home, that no-matter how clear something may be in ones mind, one can still be dead wrong.
_________________
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. |
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TheWord
Big Hamster
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I agree. And good luck to you trying to show someone the "meat" of the word to someone who's eyes cannot see nor their ears hear.
There is a reason for it. And thats all I gotta say about that |
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nobody important
Young Wolf
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: |
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we should keep this in mind
| Quote: | When WE told YOU about the power and coming of our lord Jesus Christ, we were not slavishly repeating cleverly invented myths; no WE had seen his majesty with our own eyes.......So
WE have confirmation of the words of the prophets; and YOU will be right to pay attention to it as a lamp for lighting the way through the dark, until the dawn comes and the morning star rises in your minds.
At the same time, WE must recognise that the INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTUAL prohecy is NEVER a matter FOR THE INDIVIDUAL. For no prophecy ever came from human initiative.
When preople spoke for God it was the Holy spirit that moved them. As there were false teachers in the past history of OUR people, so YOU too will have YOUR FALSE TEACHERS, who will insinuate THEIR OWN DISRUPTIVE VIEWS and, by DISOWNING THE LORD (whoever listens to you listens to me, whoever rejects you rejects me also) who bought them freedom, will bring upon themseslves a speedy destruction. Many Will copy their behaviour and THE WAY OF TRUTH will be brought into DISREPUTE ON THEIR ACCOUNT. |
and Remember that at towards the end of his letter St Peter also Refers to the letters of paul and says
There are things in His [st Pauls] letters that are hard to understand, the untaught and unstable twist them as they do with the rest of the scriptures.
There is no doubt about it milk, meat, water or wine the truth is St Peter is clearly warning about interpreation of scripture for oneself. If you are unwilling even to consider it and re read the entire 2nd letter of Peter, then your being a fool to yourself. |
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TheWord
Big Hamster
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | There are things in His [st Pauls] letters that are hard to understand, the untaught and unstable twist them as they do with the rest of the scriptures.
There is no doubt about it milk, meat, water or wine the truth is St Peter is clearly warning about interpreation of scripture for oneself. If you are unwilling even to consider it and re read the entire 2nd letter of Peter, then your being a fool to yourself |
God bless you for your concern. I see that you are a faithful Catholic. I have decided against posting line upon line to rebuke many of your statements and those of the Catholic Church. It only leads to anger, which does nothing to glorify God. Instead I will focus on agreeing with you that there are many false teachers in the world.
God bless |
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Dust
Growing Lion
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 894
Location: All over the western U.S.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | nobody important:
the truth is St Peter is clearly warning about interpreation of scripture for oneself. |
Well, I would agree, but even if we study under a great teacher, our trust is to be in the Lord, more than our understanding of what we learn from the teacher, or what the teacher himself articulates to us that he understands. I am sure there are teachers who have the preliminary understandings to properly contemplate deeper things, and may even obtain flashes of extreamly great insight, from time to time, but even these are subject to the wills of the flesh. Look what happened to Solomon.
Trust in the Lord, and keep even the wisest (or what appears to be the wisest) instruction at it's proper level, or in proper perspective.
I agree there are teachers who can most definitely lead us to greater understanding than we might arrive at on our own, but we still have to be very wary of your 'Jim Jones' types, and even preists who may mislead us.
I think also that carelessness with some deeper truths can lead those of perhaps lesser understanding to certain misunderstandings.
For instance....we wouldn't put a 1st year physics student, who may understand the basics, in charge of a rocket launch....having the senior rocket scientists at NASA say...'hit this button, pull that lever, and whatever you do, don't touch that! We're going to lunch'. He may make it through, but if he stumbles, or something not covered happens....all HELL could break loose.
_________________
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. |
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nobody important
Young Wolf
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | God bless you for your concern. I see that you are a faithful Catholic. I have decided against posting line upon line to rebuke many of your statements and those of the Catholic Church. It only leads to anger, which does nothing to glorify God. Instead I will focus on agreeing with you that there are many false teachers in the world.
God bless |
| Quote: | Well, I would agree, but even if we study under a great teacher, our trust is to be in the Lord, more than our understanding of what we learn from the teacher, or what the teacher himself articulates to us that he understands. I am sure there are teachers who have the preliminary understandings to properly contemplate deeper things, and may even obtain flashes of extreamly great insight, from time to time, but even these are subject to the wills of the flesh. Look what happened to Solomon.
Trust in the Lord, and keep even the wisest (or what appears to be the wisest) instruction at it's proper level, or in proper perspective. |
Amen and AMEN!
I agree with you both that our trust should be in the lord.
When we realise that we are not to trust our own judgment, our own individual understanding, our oen interpretation we are left with a very serious question...who do we trust?
You both have already answered this... our trust should be in the lord!
Amen!
when we put our trust in Jesus Christ we find that he tells us to put our trust in his apostles, this supports the apostles claim
"we have confirmation of the prophets"
he gives promises to the apostles such as through them and St Peter he would build his church and the Gates of Hell will not previal against them, he also promises them he will send the holy spirit to guide them.
I am not against reading and trying to understand scripture and I am sure St Peter wasnt. But we must realise that you, me and all Christians are part of one family and united we are lead into the fullness of truth....individually we are lead into falsehood.
The holy spirit does not guide us into division but unity... because the father, son and the holy spirit are one and Christ prayed for unity we are assured the spirit will not lead us into disunit, therefore we must trust something other than ourselves with the interpretation and you are both perfectly correct.... Trust the lord! |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| and it is written the HOLY SPIRIT would be for all believers and HE teaches them...trust the LORD...amen... |
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nobody important
Young Wolf
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | and it is written the HOLY SPIRIT would be for all believers and HE teaches them...trust the LORD...amen... |
Jas 2:19
Even the demons believe! Are they taught by the holy spirit?
Just who are the believers to whom the spirit will be sent?
The Spirit is sent to the apostles first for "the world can not recieve him" but the apostles were able to recieve him because they knew him, for he lived with them and was in them.
He breathed on his apostles and said to them "recieve the holy spirit"
And then the Apostles layed their hands on those who believe in Christs word...not merely in his existance.
And So it is today that it is those who have been confirmed in the holy spirit are those who have had hands layed on them by those who have been commissioned to do so by those who have succeeded their predorcesors in the apostolic line. |
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TheWord
Big Hamster
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to all who believe in the true gospel AND follow the commandments of Jesus Christ.
| Quote: | | Even the demons believe! Are they taught by the holy spirit? |
Jam 2:19 Is simply stating that "even demons believe in one God"
( | Quote: | ASV) Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder.
(Darby) *Thou* believest that God is one. Thou doest well. The demons even believe, and tremble.
(ISV) You believe that there is one God. That's fine! Even the demons believe that and tremble with fear.
(KJV+) Thou4771 believest4100 that3754 there is2076 one1520 God;2316 thou doest4160 well:2573 the3588 devils1140 also2532 believe,4100 and2532 tremble.5425
(KJVA) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(KJVR) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(LITV) You believe that God is One. You do well; even the demons believe and shudder.
(Murdock) Thou believest that there is one God; thou dost well; the demons also believe, and tremble.
(WEB) You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
(YLT) thou--thou dost believe that God is one; thou dost well, and the demons believe, and they shudder! |
The indwelling Spirit is always spoken of as a gift that is given after belief. Below is a selection of Scriptures which suggest such a sequence.
John 7:39 But this he spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in him would receive;
John 14:15-17 “If you love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another helper, that he may abide with you forever—the Spirit of truth.”
John 14:21 “And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
John 14:23 “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.”
Acts 2:38 “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 5:32 “And we are his witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him."
Acts 19:2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
Gal 3:14 that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:2 Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Eph 1:13 In him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. |
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